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Society Has Slammed the Door on Chivalry
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Society Has Slammed the Door on Chivalry
 PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:31 am Reply with quote  
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  Mara Jade Skywalker
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Forgive me for being old fashioned, but I feel that chivalry has died. I'm sure many have said this, but I really feel it to be so. Especially among the younger generation. My main example is going to be school, because that's where I spend the most of my time. But I hope you won't write it off as, "Oh, it's college kids." No, this is a common thing in the youth of our time, even young adults.

I grew up in a society that encouraged, almost demanded, chivalry. Males always catered to females, and the young (male and female alike) catered to their elders. Boys opened the door for girls. Boys gave up their seat for females, and young people gave up their seat for adults. These among other things, of course. And I suppose it's what I've gotten used to. But I can't imagine that I'm the only one bothered by the lack of chivalry in this day and age.

At school, doors are often slammed in my face. If I'm not right on the heels of the person in front of me, I'm going to get my face smacked. Now of course we have the occasional person who will stop and hold the door. But I'm talking about the majority here. I once got on the shuttle to ride around campus, and every seat was taken. I was the only person left without a seat, and I had to stand. A good 15 males just watched me standing there, carrying a decent sized load of books and materials, while trying to stay upright. But not one moved for the entire ride. I wasn't offended by this, but I was disappointed. How can our society have gotten to the point that we no longer care for anyone other than ourselves?

Before anyone gets the wrong idea, I am not of the type that believe that females are fragile creatures that must be catered to at every moment. We cook and clean and sew quilts for the kiddies. We are submissive to our husbands and we never voice a dissenting opinion. I completely disagree with this view, and am almost repulsed by it. A female should have a head on her shoulders and think for herself. She should be able to do more than cook, clean, and mend quilts. Unless, of course, that's all she wishes to do. She is not a puppet to be unquestioningly ruled by her husband, and she should very much have an opinion of her own. I mention all that because I know there are those who think Christians like myself have a degrading view of women, and so my argument for chivalry would be somewhat biased. I'm sorry, but that's not what I believe.

Now, while I believe that women should have their own voice, I do believe that men hold the final authority. That's how God describes it in the Bible, so that's where I get my opinion from. And this is where I come from with chivalry. The male is to be the leader and protector of the home, of the females and the younger males. He is responsible to take care of them. And for me, opening doors and giving up your seat are just examples of those responsibilities. Open the door for the lady, it shows respect. If nothing else, hold the door behind you until she gets there. And does this mean that females can't reciprocate for males? Of course not. I hold the door open for guys all the time. I'm just saying that it's more generally expected of the males.

And if you dislike placing Biblical reasons behind chivalry, then for Pete's sake think of it morally. How do we as a society wish to be viewed? Everyone for oneself? I certainly hope not. But that's how it appears to me today. It's a minor thing, perhaps, but it is indication of a greater problem. When we quit caring for others, I feel that things can only go downhill. And the youth of my generation have grown up thinking that they need think of no one other than themselves. And so the doors continue to be slammed in unexpecting faces.
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 PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:14 am Reply with quote  
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  Old Master Ben
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Hey, you're preaching to the choir right here. Where I went to school, all of those things were done. Not everyone did it, of course, but we all knew that we should, and most of us did. It's obvious that my private school and a college can't be compared, but I would hope that, at least for the people that were in my grade, that carries over to college, and beyond. That should give you 40 more guys with good manners in the world. Smile


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 PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:01 am Reply with quote  
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  Jedi Joe
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I always hold doors open for people. And I will continue to do so and teach my kids to do so.

But yes, people have gotten very rude in stuff like that.
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 PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:05 am Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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Mara are you 25-10 range or 18-25?

Curious- Cause I always had an impression you weren't THAT old, but you home pic and saints- DOWN SOUTH- ahh ok it makes sense- yeah- in my area my gen was the last of those- and few of my grade even bothered. I'm always holding doors and stuff- I want to trip young jerks who cut right through in front of the ladies I hold the door for.

My sister-in-law is pregnant and I was rambling about how when it comes to emergencies and manners SHE should be first- she's a WOMAN with CHILD so that's a 2 for 1 so she takes presidence. She laughed- I was serious!

But for the Ladies- it's not always this way- I'm a stay at home Dad now- my wife's turn as the "big earner" slot. I think a large problem was the "Equality" then you get dorks who are all "You want Equal you got it" and never help a woman again. It hurts us as a civilized society.

But my Dad was raised Catholic and wanted me and my sister to decide for ourselves what church or religion we'd like. Which is funny since in the end after trying different ones- me and my sister came to the same end- Spiritual YES, Religious- NO. Just not into Organized Religion. IMO It's been at the center of most the major conflicts throughout history.

Perhaps Technology has factored into our digression as well. Everyone used to doors opening themselves.

But I agree- people should stop take the time and be curtious and polite again. Because that is what set this nation above the rest once- our compassion towards our fellow man. Now days we're too worried about "Terrorists" Thanks GW, Love looking back on things and feeling like Han and Leia having kids while a clone of the Emperor is making his bid for power and winning with "thunderous applause" Laughing


But back to your post- men and women alike should be helping each other- help fellow Man.

I think of your train ride- it's bunk that no man get up and offer you a seat- but on the same side- I'm sure there were plenty od others women or young people who had nothing to hold who could have offered to help you out.

Sorry- I get too into looking at things form MULTIPLE sides Laughing
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 PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:07 am Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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Jedi Joe wrote:
I always hold doors open for people. And I will continue to do so and teach my kids to do so.

But yes, people have gotten very rude in stuff like that.



That's all we can do- and selectively drop hints when people are subjective to it!
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 PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:31 am Reply with quote  
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  Mara Jade Skywalker
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No, like I said, females should help out as well. Sorry, I didn't mean to sound as if the females had no obligation. And I don't have a problem with the wife earning the money if that's the way it has to be for awhile. Or even if that's just how you agree to it for the time being. That doesn't matter to me. But I suppose for me it's just more expected of the male, like on the shuttle. That may be my own ideal that seems old fashioned to you or even wrong, but I suppose I just feel like the male is the stronger gender (and they are...literally), and they should stop to help out the female. Not that we necessarily need the help, but it's a sign of respect. But it can definitely go both ways, I agree. But when everyone is in the same boat, such as on the shuttle, I guess I just feel that the male should stop and show deference to the female. Again, it's a sign of respect and a sign that they care. That's all I meant.

And I didn't mean it toward any of you! Sorry. I guess I was just aggravated with too many doors being slammed in my and others' faces at school. And this isn't just about doors, guys, sorry. I am daily disappointed in my generation, whether it be at school or at Wal-Mart or at McDonald's. It doesn't matter, it's just that I see others my age most often at school. The way they complain constantly about school, about the teacher, about the tests, about the homework. I can understand complaining in jest, but they're serious. And if you can't take it, then go home! It's like they can't believe that they actually have to work for a degree. They can't believe that they actually had to study for the test. And they can't believe that they actually have to come to class! Confused

My whole gen just seems so immature to me. And I guess the lack of chivalry kind of just tipped me over the edge yesterday. So yeah, I wasn't directing that at any of you. I just needed to get my thoughts down.

And to the people at school and other places who are mature and who are chivalrous and who do care about others, none of this is directed at you! Just to clarify that.

It's a school of 17,000, so it's not that small. I have a friend at LSU, a school of 32,000, who says it's the same way there. So...forgive me for directing this at the entire population, but I'm just basing it on a sample of approximately 50,000. Sad
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 PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:34 am Reply with quote  
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  Rouge77
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There's never been any kind of real age of chivalry. Chivalry as an ideal has always been limited in practice. A "gentleman" who would have been keen to open doors for ladies and kissing their hands afterwards wouldn't have opened a door for a maid but expected her to open it for him and curtsey.

So, no wide practice of chivalry except always somewhere in the past, in one's own or in some society's... Wink

I also personally do open doors to people etc without looking who they are. But I think it's just common courtesy.


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 PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:40 am Reply with quote  
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  Mara Jade Skywalker
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Rogue: You make a good point, and I understand what you're saying. But I guess this comes from what I was saying eariler, the rant wasn't really directed at chivalry. I mean, it was, but there was an underlying aggravation that, after having cooled down, I've realized.

So, let me clarify: The chivalry thing does bother me. And I know I started the thread directed at that. But the aggravation exploded because of an underlying issue with the immaturity of my generation. Sorry for getting myself off-topic. I get myself so worked up sometimes that I forget why I'm really aggravated. Wink
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 PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:02 am Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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Mara Jade Skywalker wrote:
That may be my own ideal that seems old fashioned to you or even wrong, but I suppose I just feel like the male is the stronger gender (and they are...literally), and they should stop to help out the female.



I agree 100%

Mara Jade Skywalker wrote:



Not that we necessarily need the help, but it's a sign of respect. But it can definitely go both ways, I agree. But when everyone is in the same boat, such as on the shuttle, I guess I just feel that the male should stop and show deference to the female. Again, it's a sign of respect and a sign that they care. That's all I meant.


Again I agree- I like to play devils advocate too much Embarassed I totally think a guy should- I get angry cause I'M typically that guy- as a Dad on 2 young kids and a wife- when we go to places like Portland- I've stood over my wife so people could have my seat- but there were plenty of single passenger men, and women alike who could have offered. (I did have a nice guy do that one time- he was all "NO man, you got a family, she can have my spot""- then he went on about watching me do it once before and no one bothered to move. I thought that was so cool) But it's how I was raised too. You ALWAYS honor women. And it's part of being a MAN, and saying it with honor still.


Mara Jade Skywalker wrote:




And I didn't mean it toward any of you! Sorry. I guess I was just aggravated with too many doors being slammed in my and others' faces at school. And this isn't just about doors, guys, sorry. I am daily disappointed in my generation, whether it be at school or at Wal-Mart or at McDonald's.


I know what it's like to NEED to vent! My wife and tend to bottle, but watching her deal with her road rage made me re adress the way I look at things that anger me. Smile



Quote:
My whole gen just seems so immature to me. And I guess the lack of chivalry kind of just tipped me over the edge yesterday. So yeah, I wasn't directing that at any of you. I just needed to get my thoughts down.

And to the people at school and other places who are mature and who are chivalrous and who do care about others, none of this is directed at you! Just to clarify that.


Just one of those dayssss... I love that songs message- as a guy- soem times a person needs to hear "I'm having one of those days" Mines "I'm in a mood; best avoiding me for a bit" Laughing


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Though to be fair I've heard this complaint since I was in elementary school, then I lived it, now I see a younger gen doing it. I tell you life IS ABOUT CIRCLES! Smile[/quote]
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 PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:20 am Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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Mara, you sound just like me. Shocked Just ask my family and they'll know I harp about the old days more than anyone my age has any right to (or do I). Our generation is so cold and it gets on my nerves almost every day. No one says a simple "thank you" or "good morning", because it's not cool or something ridiculous like that. I would blame this on technology, but not so much as the modern mindset- you're the most important thing you'll ever know. You're lot in life is to cater to your every need. Take care of yourself first and others second.
What nonsense!
*calms down*
The good thing is that it feels good to do the right thing when everyone around you is doing the wrong thing. Like an underground revolution. Cool
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 PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:46 pm Reply with quote  
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  Queen Padmè Skywalker
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Huh. While you all make some great points, I find something interesting. I go to the same school as Mara and I rarely have people be so rude. The majority (but not all) of the time, I get doors held for me. *shrugs*
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 PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:35 pm Reply with quote  
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  Mara Jade Skywalker
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Yes, but you haven't been there as long as I have, either. Just give it some time. These things will become apparent.
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 PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:49 pm Reply with quote  
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  Queen Padmè Skywalker
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Perhaps so. Confused
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 PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:15 am Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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I'm going out on a limb with this, but hear me out before you crucify me ladies...

Ok, first off, I believe in chivalry. Seats given to women and elderly, doors held, chairs pulled out, doors on cars opened, I'm a regular old fashioned person. I was raised knowing that was the way to be and while darker and rougher around the edges than a knight in shining armour I still think I'm at least something of a gentleman. Now I say this...

Chivalry is dead, and women killed it.

Now before my untimely death due to this statement, I'd like to bring up the feminist movement. It did many things to make women equal, but it also drove men away. Men were made to feel that women should be treated exactly like everyone else, and therefore such happened. They have attained equal pay as a man, but with that has come the same atmosphere. Men don't hold doors for each other often, and women are becoming more and more 'one of the guys' so men aren't as understanding as they used to be.

Example: When I was still going to college (i'm taking a year off to work) I held the door for a nice young woman I knew and she stopped before the open door, glared at me, and said...and I quote..."I'm not a helpless little b****, I can hold the f***ing door myself if you don't mind. Stop trying to put women down!" With that, I let the door go, allowing it to slam shut in the wind right in front of her face, turned, and walked away. I have no patience for the rude. Now tell me, since I've had many the experience like that, does the entire female gender deserve chivalry from us dudes?

Having asked that question I'd like you to know that I open doors for women, watch my language and topics in front of women and the elderly and just the other day helped an old lady to the car with her groceries. Chivalry isn't dead, but its hooked up to life support and eventually someone's gonna pull the plug.
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 PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:23 am Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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Can't say as I can see a fault in your logic there. You never know what your going to get from people- I try to remind myself that everyone has bad days, weeks months or years. If I can be more tolerant of those around me then hopefully they will be tolerant of my foibles.
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