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Israel Blockade

 
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Israel Blockade
 PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:12 pm Reply with quote  
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  Autobon
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Finally a sensible article on the Israel blockade issue

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/03/AR2010060304287.html


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 PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:19 pm Reply with quote  
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  Old Master Ben
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I would read it if I were not currently holding a grudge against the Washington Post. They reported that famous college basketball coach John Wooden had died, and I went out and put how sad I was online - turns out they were wrong. Of course, I'm glad he isn't dead, but they shouldn't make that mistake.


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 PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:21 am Reply with quote  
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  VileZero
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Old Master Ben wrote:
I would read it if I were not currently holding a grudge against the Washington Post. They reported that famous college basketball coach John Wooden had died, and I went out and put how sad I was online - turns out they were wrong. Of course, I'm glad he isn't dead, but they shouldn't make that mistake.


He did die today, though. Sad


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 PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:50 am Reply with quote  
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  Old Master Ben
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Sadly enough, they announced that he was dead at almost the exact time of my earlier message. Sad


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 PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:28 pm Reply with quote  
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  Rouge77
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What comes to the blockade, I'm utterly against it and it tends to be misrepresented in western countries even by those who oppose it. It's not a question whether few rockets or grenades end up falling in ethnically cleansed areas near Gaza - they usually are launched as a result of previous Israeli attacks, which tends to be utterly overlooked - it's just a question of very primitive politics.

Every sign of compromise is seen as a sign of weakness especially by the current and recent Israeli leadership. If they would stop the blockade, they think they would look weak and thus give Hamas (and Jihad an al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, which do a fair share of the rocket etc attacks) a victory. But they also look any sign of compromise from the other side - by Hamas' recent agreement to support EU supervision of materials - as a sign of weakness and a show that their strategy is working.

On the part of the resistance movements, their attacks play a similar role; by firing rockets after Israeli attacks, by trying to put on mines on the Gaza side of the border (Israel having - which is again overlooked in the western countries - declared the border area on the Gaza side an area forbidden for Palestinians and having killed dozens of people there after it's attack on Gaza) is just a show of resistance, not giving up and annoying the far more powerful opponent. The case of a bloodied fighter coming up from the floor every time he has been punched so hard he has fallen.

It's not a case of "Israel's safety" - the rockets have killed less than ten Israeli civilians and soldiers this decade - on either side. It's just a case of entrenched positions where every movement towards resolution only tends to harden positions, just because it would be seen as weakness and a defeat.

It's also the reason why Netanyahu is ready to oppose the current US' governments wishes again and again. Last autumn Obama blinked first in their contest and now Netanyahu is confident that Obama will always blink first and end up supporting Israel no matter what it does, being weak in Netanyahu's eyes. Thus the US led "promixity talks", like all the rest of US led talks since Rabin's murder will not led to anything, because US governments always blink first and end up in Israel's leash.

The answer to the blockade and the whole conflict is a forced establishment of a state of Palestine on the pre- 1967 borders. Israel's leadership will never willingly accept it, but that's how it has to go or else there road takes, probably through much bloodshed, to a binational state in the future. The pre- 1967 borders would give Israel 78 % of the British Palestine, but that isn't enough for them according to their leadership. The international community should force them to accept it. Or else they will get none for their own, but will have to share all when decades pass.

That would be justice. But it would be justice far in the future.

The attack against the flotilla was horrific, but nothing extraordinary for Israel. They think they are above all laws, and US (US UN representative said as much when crying against the Goldstone report, declaring that no one should have the right to investigate Israel's doings) and UK governments think the same, the new government having just revived Gordon Brown's commitment to shelter Israeli elite from international law when in UK, whatever they have done.


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 PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:08 am Reply with quote  
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  Autobon
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Rouge,

Though I think your are completely false about your other opinions, I am going to stick to the topic of the blockade/flotilla incident, which is what I made this thread for.

First off, Israel had every right to check these ships. The blockade is meant to stop rockets and other such weapons from getting into Hamas hands, who they are currently at war with. Obviously Israel was not going to let these flotilla's through the blockade without inspection, no country would allow such a thing if it were them in Israel's position. If you honestly think a country would allow 10,000 tons of uninspected material to pass through and potentially help supply an enemy they are at war with, you are really out of touch with reality. Not to mention that Israel's blockade has already stopped weapons going into Gaza, many of them under a humanitarian cover.

Furthermore, these so called humanitarian activists on the flotilla were even told that they could unload their cargo off at a certain spot and after inspection it could be sent off to Gaza (http://bit.ly/9IzCpV). This would have been perfectly acceptable if these flotillas were just about humanitarian aid, but we know they were not. Their purpose was to go through the blockade in order to cause a international outcry when they were inevitably stopped.

To say that the activists on these ships, at least the one on which the incident happened, had nothing but peaceful ambitions is an outright lie. As you can see from these two videos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo) and (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2duPV9MQIc&feature=channel) the passengers were armed with metal clubs, knives, firebombs, etc. They immediately started to beat the soldiers savagely and even threw some off the tall ship. Its also important to note that the soldiers were armed with non lethal weapons as their main defense and didnt resort to guns until things got very out of control.

As to the legality of the incident, Isreal had the right to board those ships. According to Helsinki Principles on the Law of Maritime Neutrality (www.vilp.de/Enpdf/e025.pdf)

5.1.2(3) Merchant ships flying the flag of a neutral State may be attacked if they are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search, capture or diversion.

5.1.2(4) Merchant ships flying the flag of a neutral State may be attacked if they:
(a) engage in belligerent acts on behalf of the enemy;
(c) are incorporated into or assist the enemy’s intelligence system;
(e) otherwise make an effective contribution to the enemy’s military action, e.g., by carrying military materials, and it is not feasible for the attacking forces to first place passengers and crew in a place of safety. Unless circumstances do not permit, they are to be given a warning, so that they can re-route, off-load, or take other precautions.


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 PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:35 am Reply with quote  
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  Rouge77
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Israel is a racist apartheid state, created through ethnic cleansing, which has enslaved an entire nation of people, forcing millions of people to live their entire lives under occupation or refugee camps.

It has killed close to ten thousand people during the last ten alone years in the occupied areas and Lebanon, at a time when the toy rockets shot from Gaza have killed about then people in the ethnically cleansed "Israel".

I'm utterly tired of the endless crimes of Israel and the endless free passes it gets from the "West", and the people who support Israel's crimes and believe it's excuses solely because it declares to be a "Jewish State", which then supposedly means that it can do whatever it pleases and nobody can do anything else except kneel before it and praise it.

The time to help the Jews would have been 75 years ago, not now. Now is the time to help the victims of Zionists.


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