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 PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:27 am Reply with quote  
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  Rouge77
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It can take 40 million years for the Earth to fully recover from mass extinctions. Just think of it, what our currently alive generations do (or don't do) now will influence the life on Earth for a such a long period.


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 PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 1:13 am Reply with quote  
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  Jedi Joe
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Hate to gravedig, but I wanted to ask you guys something.

Do you think Creationism should be taught in schools? I personally, even as a devout Christian, think we should not. Creationism is not science, and therefore should not be taught in science classes.

Besides, it could end up being as bad as A Beka and other Christian science books, where it's all about disproving evolution, and providing "facts" that the universe was made in 4,000 B.C...
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 PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:35 am Reply with quote  
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  Queen Padmè Skywalker
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I believe 100% in Creation myself and I think the evidence backs it up. But, honestly, I think the best thing to do in schools at this point is present both it and evolution and let students (and their families) decide for themselves.
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 PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:09 am Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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The problem is that people throw a fit when God is put forth in a public school and that's what creationism is. I think that's hilarious since they don't like one faith being preached but they love that the THEORY of evolution is preached. And frankly it takes more faith to believe that we all happened from a big bang and everything came from nothing on its own than it does to believe in a higher diety.

I had a conversation with an atheist recently. We were debating over what the end results of our respective beliefs were. I told him that one loses nothing to believe in God because if they're wrong then oh well, they die like everyone else but if they're right then they're with God. An atheist can be right and there's no harm done, but if they're wrong then there is a loss. Its statistically safer to be a believer.

And that is why they need to offer the information that its an option to kids in school and let them decide themselves Smile
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 PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:26 am Reply with quote  
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  Jedi Joe
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But why must we teach RELIGION in a SCIENCE class? I mean, that's comparable to teaching crystal healing in a health class.
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 PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:47 am Reply with quote  
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  Mara Jade Skywalker
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It's not that Creation needs to be taught, Joe. But the alternative is not a proven fact, either. And it is presented as such. In other words, can they prove how the world came to be, and how humans were originally created? No they cannot. No more than we can prove Creation. But their theory is presented as proven fact, and ours is presented as an act of heresy. They hate the mention of Creation, though I can't figure out why. Is our theory dangerous? What in the world is so scary about our theory that they can't stand to hear the word spoken? The reason their theory is scary to me is because it leaves God out, the God I believe in. And to exclude our Creator from a theory of how civilization came to be is scary indeed.

The only part of our theory that cannot be attributed to science is the very beginning, the creation of all. But from there on out, everything happened scientifically just like the alternative theory. So do tell me why we can't approach the Creation theory, minus its beginning, from a scientific standpoint? Because I believe in God and his Word, I do believe that what the Bible says happened to the world could be proven scientifically. But I am no scientist, and there are no acclaimed scientists out there who will embrace the idea enough to search it out. Any that do are kooks and heretics. So Creation can never be proven as scientific because no one will accept it or even attempt to find out. They just trash it as a "religious theory". So. Neutral
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 PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:00 am Reply with quote  
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  Jedi Joe
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Well we know there are transitional phases because of the fossil record, and we've seen a number of micro-evolutions, such as dogs changing breeds, or humans changing skin color.

We also know for a fact that the universe is much older than 6,000 earth-years. Measuring distance between other galaxies shows us that the universe has been around for around 14 BILLION years.

Personally, I believe modern science makes the concept of God, and Christianity, much more believable. It came to show us more about Him and proved His existence further.

Think about this, the Big Bang Theory states that everything, including time, was created at a single point, around 14 billion years ago. There are verses in the Bible that says God created time. There are no other religions that say their god created time, except Christianity. And the scientific discovery that time wasn't always there was a pretty big one, and yet it was written in the Bible for centuries. The Big Bang Theory is widely criticized by Christians, yet it coincides with the Bible pretty well.
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 PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:35 am Reply with quote  
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  Mara Jade Skywalker
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Except for the fact that the Earth was created 14 billion years ago. If such was the case, I don't think the Bible would clearly give us the timeline from Adam to Jesus, indicating an approx. 4,000 year span of time. We do know for a fact that from Jesus to now is approx. 2,000 years. So, approx. 6,000 years.

What I could easily believe, however, is that the Earth is 14 billion years old. I don't necessarily believe that's the case, but I believe it could be. Why? Because Adam was created as an adult, he was not created at 0 years old. So why would the Earth necessarily be 0 years old when created? Personally, I think it was created at an advanced age, just like Adam. I mean, look at the light from the stars we can see. Those must have been created at an advanced age, or we wouldn't be seeing them yet!

But I stand beside the fact that the Earth was created approx. 6,000 years ago. If I'm going to believe some things in the Bible, I'm going to believe all things in the Bible. Believing only partial bits of it would make the whole thing irrelevant. How would we know which pieces are true? So I believe very strongly that the entire thing is true, and when the Bible very clearly specifies through lifespans and timelines that God created the world 6,000 years ago, I will stand by that.
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 PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:37 am Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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I would actually state that most religions promote that their supreme diety was the creator of time. Zeus in Greek and other such. But the big bang theory is just that: a theory. So is evolution. The thing is that in a world where Political Correctness is so important and we must view everyone's views as equal it baffles me that people in Christianity always get the butt end. We're mocked at every turn and prejudiced at public schools. The thing is that when nothing can be proved then people will always decide that any alternative that states that there is no creator god is the one that's promoted because its also the one that promotes that we have no one to answer to. Creation is a theory of existance but it also implies that there is someone that we have to answer to for what we've done wrong. It goes against evolution. Its less of a scientific viewpoint because we DO have micro-evolutions and such but people are very unwilling to accept that their view is unproven. Evolution and the Big Bang are just that. Theories. They can never be conclusively proven, just as the existance of God cannot be proven. Both are a matter of faith. Why should one be taught and the other not? I'm not saying teach it in a science class, make it a micro-course.
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 PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:52 am Reply with quote  
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  Jedi Joe
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Actually, only the universe is 14 billion years old. Earth and the Solar system didn't come into play until 4.7 billion years ago.

If you take all the Bible literally, you come up with problems, such as the problem that killed Galileo. Psalm 104:5 says "He set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be moved.", this verse and others in Psalm were the reason why the Catholic Church put Galileo under house arrest, just because he said the Earth moved around the Sun.

Now we know for a fact that the Earth moves around the Sun, and that we are no longer the center of the Universe. Why should this situation be any different? Technically, time is only confined to the Universe. God is omnipotent, He has no time. A "day" for God could be an infinite amount of time, because time is not a boundary in Heaven.
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 PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:55 am Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Jedi Joe wrote:
If you take all the Bible literally, you come up with problems, such as the problem that killed Galileo. Psalm 104:5 says "He set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be moved.", this verse and others in Psalm were the reason why the Catholic Church put Galileo under house arrest, just because he said the Earth moved around the Sun.

Now we know for a fact that the Earth moves around the Sun, and that we are no longer the center of the Universe. Why should this situation be any different? Technically, time is only confined to the Universe. God is omnipotent, He has no time. A "day" for God could be an infinite amount of time, because time is not a boundary in Heaven.


Ah, but see the thing is that what you just said is a common tool that is used to break apart christianity. Something is taken out of context or used literally. When you put a foundation on a house its so it won't break apart or shift, but it too rotates with the earth.
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 PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:00 pm Reply with quote  
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  Old Master Ben
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I agree. That verse is not speaking to the scientific rotation of the Earth.


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 PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:11 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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Jedi Joe wrote:
Now we know for a fact that the Earth moves around the Sun, and that we are no longer the center of the Universe. Why should this situation be any different? Technically, time is only confined to the Universe. God is omnipotent, He has no time. A "day" for God could be an infinite amount of time, because time is not a boundary in Heaven.

I can believe that. Seven days for God could be infinity for us. This could well change, but right now I do believe the earth is 4.7 billion years old like scientists are saying. Something that just doesn't make any sense is why scientists keep concluding is there is no God. What is it about studying atoms and such that makes you assume God cannot exsist? In the end, for me at least, however old the earth and/or universe is a moot point.
For me the main points about creation are:
-God created the earth.
-God has a plan and fate is not decided by the splitting of atoms.
-God set apart humanity to be something different than the rest of the animal kingdom.
Now why do scientists have a problem with that?
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 PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:14 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Its too simple Reep. Its not overly complicated. Something complicated like atomic structure and such just CAN'T have been created, at least not in their eyes. But the complications is evidence that life was by design and not by accident.
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 PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:20 am Reply with quote  
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  Autobon
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I believe in a seven day creation, but I agree that is should not be taught in school. The fact is that its not science, as it cannot be 100% proven. Evolution is also not science, and therefore should not be taught in school either.


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