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 PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:52 am Reply with quote  
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  Autobon
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Jedi Joe wrote:
The Big Bang Theory is widely criticized by Christians, yet it coincides with the Bible pretty well.


It was in fact a Christian who came up with the Big Bang theory, Georges Lemaitre. Christian scientists were some of the biggest and most outspoken supporters of the Big Bang Theory.

The reason evolutionists do not like it is because the Big Bang Theory points to a relatively short universe age. If the universe was to be measured back to a single point, it is estimated that the universe is only about 13 billion years old, which makes it a nightmare for evolutionists. That is not enough time for the trillions upon trillions of good mutations that must occur, when you take into account the rate of good mutations vs bad mutations.

As Arthur Eddington said, "Philosophically, the notion of a beginning to the present order is repugnant to me and I should like to find a genuine loophole." He later said, "We must allow evolution an infinite amount of time to get started."

This is why people like Fred Hoyle support a Steady State Theory, or Hawking comes up with ideas like Singularities.

Its a really interesting topic to read about, if you get into the history.


Last edited by Autobon on Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:55 am; edited 1 time in total


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 PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:54 am Reply with quote  
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  Jedi Joe
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I think natural selections should be taught as a theory, because there is a lot of evidence that backs it up. Creationism, however, only has the Bible, and there is really nothing else that backs up a seven-day-creation 6,000 years ago.

Which is why I chose the belief of Old-Earth Creationism. I can freely praise God and accept modern science at the same time.
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 PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:00 am Reply with quote  
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  Old Master Ben
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I'd take the Bible over anything. But that's just me.


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 PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:38 am Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Jedi Joe wrote:
I think natural selections should be taught as a theory, because there is a lot of evidence that backs it up. Creationism, however, only has the Bible, and there is really nothing else that backs up a seven-day-creation 6,000 years ago.

Which is why I chose the belief of Old-Earth Creationism. I can freely praise God and accept modern science at the same time.


See but the thing is that nature is nature. Natural Selection is a fancy way of saying big things eat little things. I eat crackers without fear that they'll evolve a way to fight back. Its all theory an its all based on belief. People can fight over it asl ong as they want. And as for scientific evidence? Here...

http://www.allaboutcreation.org/creation-evidence.htm
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 PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:33 pm Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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Dude it hurts when fish crackers fight back!
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 PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 2:54 pm Reply with quote  
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  Mara Jade Skywalker
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Old Master Ben wrote:
I'd take the Bible over anything. But that's just me.


Ditto, my friend. Couldn't have said it better myself. Smile
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 PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:13 pm Reply with quote  
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  Autobon
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Old Master Ben wrote:
I'd take the Bible over anything. But that's just me.


Which means that you believe God created the universe, and your not going to get into origins, theories, etc, since the Bible doesnt talk about any of this stuff (because its not a science book).

One thing you have to careful of though, is people like the Answers in Genesis types. They are just as bad as evolutionists. Like evolutionists, they come at things with an incredible bias and twist 'science' to match with their beliefs. These are the types of people who will say the flood caused the Grand Canyon, it helped create all the oil, etc. They insist that the earth is super young, as in 20 thousands years or less, etc. They have answer for everything and they are totally wacked out. (http://www.answersingenesis.org)

That said, I agree with you. God created the Universe and thats all the really matters, but just remember the Bible is not a science book.


Last edited by Autobon on Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:19 pm; edited 2 times in total


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 PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:18 pm Reply with quote  
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  Mara Jade Skywalker
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Ah, correct. But if science contradicts the Bible, then I have to disagree with science. For instance, when the Earth was created. The Bible clearly describes via timelines and lifespans that it was created approx. 6,000 years ago, and I'm going to believe that's when it was created, despite scientists screaming otherwise. Now the age of the Earth, that I can argue. as I stated earlier.

Besides, science is defined by humans, and humans are fallible. The Bible was created by God, and God is not. Smile
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 PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:31 pm Reply with quote  
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  Autobon
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Mara Jade Skywalker wrote:
Now the age of the Earth, that I can argue. as I stated earlier.


Actually, you cant really argue the age of the earth. First of all, the bible doesnt actually say how old it is. In fact the first verse is "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." So we know God did create it. However, it goes on to say "Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep." This is before he creates anything. You don't know how long of a time was between this and creation.

Secondly, there are many things that dont make sense. For example why there is so much oil in the world? Scientifically it would take an insane amount of plant life and many years to create all the oil we have. Literally, there is so much oil that it would be the equivalent of layers and layers of plants covering the entire earth. Not to mention it would take a super long time for it to get compressed to the point where it turns into oil. So how is it there? Questions likes these we will never know, because the Bible never talks about it.

This is why I am a strong believer in "I dont know." The bible is not a science book. It doesnt answer questions like how old is the earth. It doesnt talk about things like aliens, or other worlds. I mean are we the only world God ever created with people in his entire eternal existence? I dont know. So ya, not everything can be answered, nor should we waste our time.

Honestly, a lot of this stuff doesnt even matter. Who CARES how old the earth is? The bible is about God's plan for people, about how he loved us and wants to have a personal relationship. Its an instruction manual for how to live our lives. It was never meant to explain all this stuff some Christians get carried away with. That said, everything historically or scientifically expressed in the bible is 100% true.


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 PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:01 pm Reply with quote  
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  Old Master Ben
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Does science hinder God? Does it limit Him? I agree with you Autobon - many things are not answered, and won't be. I'm not too concerned with the age of the Earth. Do I believe it is young? Yes. But does that change my view of God? No.


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 PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 7:57 pm Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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Mara Jade Skywalker wrote:


Besides, science is defined by humans, and humans are fallible. The Bible was created by God, and God is not. Smile


Wait, the Bible was written by MEN.... same fallible men.

Men who claim were writing the word of God.

(not that I'm getting into that one at all, just stating a fact)

The Bible too is just a book at the end of the day. Sure we consider it THE BOOK, but it's still mans work [directed by God you could say]

God Trumps the Bible IMO
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 PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:10 pm Reply with quote  
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  Old Master Ben
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I don't feel up to a theological debate of the Bible, but I'll restate my views

The Bible was written by men. God told the men what to write. No, there is no proof. Yes, I could be wrong. But that's where faith comes in; the same faith I use to believe in a God anyway.

It comes down to this. You either believe that the Bible is telling the truth, or you don't. If you do, then you can easily believe the verses I will share. Of course, you can just say "Well, men wrote these verses, so they could be lying/incorrect." But you don't know that. And I don't know that. I choose to believe that these verses are correct.

"2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,"

"2 Peter 1:20-21
20Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. 21For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."

These verses say that scripture is given by God. Like I said, you would have to believe that the Bible is true for these to matter to you.


Last edited by Old Master Ben on Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:43 pm; edited 1 time in total


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 PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:26 pm Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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Old Master Ben wrote:
Does science hinder God? Does it limit Him? I agree with you Autobon - many things are not answered, and won't be. I'm not too concerned with the age of the Earth. Do I believe it is young? Yes. But does that change my view of God? No.


Good point mate!

I have no answers to the Earth's age, but it doesn't change my belief in God, or that God created all.

Same with the Bible- even though I see it as a book written by men claiming that it was Gods word it doesn't change how I look at God. For my relationship with God has never been based on the bible.

But Gods works are so mysterious and awe inspiring it's fun to ponder!
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 PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:44 pm Reply with quote  
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  Old Master Ben
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Sorry, I made edits to my post before I knew you had posted again. Oops. Confused

You know what I think we need? It has been discussed so many times here, that we need a thread just for religion/faith discussions. Not so much Evolution vs. , but more faith based or Bible questions.


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 PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:08 pm Reply with quote  
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  Mara Jade Skywalker
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Autobon wrote:
Mara Jade Skywalker wrote:
Now the age of the Earth, that I can argue. as I stated earlier.


Actually, you cant really argue the age of the earth.


Ah, I see your point. But I simply meant that I really have no idea how old the Earth is, so I have no set belief in what its age might be. Therefore, I would be open to considering the fact that it may be older than we Christians are generally taught. Smile
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