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Return of the Jedi - Alernate Plot
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Return of the Jedi - Alernate Plot
 PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:58 am Reply with quote  
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  Mara Jade Skywalker
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So this may be old news, but I've never heard it before. Apparently Gary Kurtz likes to say how wrong George was on everything he did post-Empire. Here is the supposedly original plot for Return of the Jedi that Lucas vetoed in the end:

“We had an outline and George changed everything in it," Kurtz said. “Instead of bittersweet and poignant he wanted a euphoric ending with everybody happy. The original idea was that they would recover [the kidnapped] Han Solo in the early part of the story and that he would then die in the middle part of the film in a raid on an Imperial base. George then decided he didn’t want any of the principals killed. By that time there were really big toy sales and that was a reason.”

The discussed ending of the film that Kurtz favored presented the rebel forces in tatters, Leia grappling with her new duties as queen and Luke walking off alone “like Clint Eastwood in the spaghetti westerns,” as Kurtz put it.
Kurtz said that ending would have been a more emotionally nuanced finale to an epic adventure than the forest celebration of the Ewoks that essentially ended the trilogy with a teddy bear luau.


What do you guys think of it? Personally, I don't like it at all. People didn't survive these films, this tale of good vs. evil, just to have everything in tatters in the end! That's like the depressing endings/plots of all the movies they were trying to get away from!

Personally, I liked the teddy bear luau. I can see how there were some who were disturbed by it, but still...leave the teddy bears out and you can still stick with the same plot. Though I think I see more of the "We love to hate 'em" feeling then the Jar-Jar "We want to murder George Lucas and burn Jar-Jar at the stake" feeling. I think most fans tolerate the Ewoks for the most part. They certainly didn't ruin the movie for me.

But anyway...I think Kurtz is just trying to take way too much credit. He acts like everything was just as much his idea as George. And when he stepped out, it all went downhill from there. I don't believe everything he's saying. I think he was a major help in filming/creating the movies, but...I don't know. Confused
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 PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:53 am Reply with quote  
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  Jedi Joe
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ROTJ was on Spike yesterday, so I decided to watch it again. I watched the Ewok battle much more closely, and they were merely a distraction. The Empire was still shooting them down. It wasn't a real victory until Chewbacca took over the AT-ST and started wreaking havoc on the Stormtroopers.

I problems with this "alternate plot". Why would you just kill off Han after being recovered from carbonite? If they wanted to kill him off, Empire would have been the movie to do it.

Yea, I'll take teddy bear luau and "WEESA FREEEEE!" over that any day. Even though the original idea with Wookiees instead of Ewoks would have been better... Wink


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 PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:54 am Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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Confused Nope. Not a fan of it, at least not for Star Wars. Like Mara said Star Wars was trying to break away from dreary, hopeless movies, not become another one. And rescuing Han just so he can die later? I've always disliked that kind of thing in movies, it makes the rescue seem pointless.
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 PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:06 am Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Drop the ewoks and the weesa free! and the original works for me as does the updated. Han didn't need to die, but the tattered survival of the Rebellion after defeating the Empire actually would've done it for me. I don't know, I prefer bleak and ambiguous to cheesy, just me....
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 PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:58 pm Reply with quote  
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  Mara Jade Skywalker
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Well, honestly, the Rebellion was in tatters afterward. The books clearly show that. And the movie really didn't touch on it. It just ended with a celebration, which really goes to show nothing of what the political situation was.

I agree about the Ewoks. They were a distraction. Besides, that's like saying how could a handful of one-man fighters take on a moon sized space station and win? That's actually worse odds, and nobody cares about that. They're just being picky because the Ewoks appeared cuddly. I happen to like cuddly. But, to be honest, we all know Ewoks can be far from cuddly...*shudders*...

As for Han dying...couldn't agree more with Reep and Joe. How could you spend so much of the movie rescuing him just to kill him off very soon thereafter? It seems pointless. Like Anakin Solo, for instance, but with less time inbetween. Most people feel that Chewie's sacrifice was pointless since Anakin died anyway. One could, however, argue that Anakin was able to do much for the cause before his death. Which is true. But Han wouldn't have had that kind of time in a movie. So...his death would have been more than sour.

Leia struggling as the new head of the Rebellion, well that certainly happened in the EU. It just wasn't shown on screen. So I don't really know what's to complain about. They ended it on a celebration of defeating the Emperor. Wouldn't you want to celebrate? They just didn't go beyond that. It was left up to your imagination until the books came along, and then they all supported the Rebellion in tatters and Leia strugglnig as Head of State. So...not that much different, really. Confused
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 PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:40 pm Reply with quote  
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  Queen Padmč Skywalker
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The alternate ending would have just been.....depressing. After three movies, we've invested in these characters and plots. People wanted a happy ending. And killing Han would have had the effect of making you wonder if Luke and Leia were really going to make it out of this alive, which might have been a good thing in the moment, but it doesn't justify killing off a beloved character like that. Especially if, as Mara said, they'd just spent the first quarter of the movie rescuing Han. Anyway, I like RotJ just the way it is, teddy bears and all. I think ESB and ANH are better, but that's just my opinion.
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 PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:02 am Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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I'd be in favor of any alternate ending where Palpatine wins. Very Happy
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 PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:03 am Reply with quote  
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  Mara Jade Skywalker
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Oh, Skuldren. *shakes head sadly* Wink
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 PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:24 pm Reply with quote  
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  Salaris Vorn
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I'd heard of the idea that Han would die in ROTJ but I didn't know all the other plot details. I pretty much agree with everyone's negative reaction to the alternate plot. Way too many details to adequately cover in a 2-3 hour movie. I also don't like the idea of the movie showing Leia as the new Queen.

I mean the movies originally seem to be portraying the Rebellion as fighting against oppression and a dictatorship/monarchy so naming Leia Queen would seem like it implying a cycle of "the good guys win at the cost of becoming the very thing they sought to destroy." (In terms of what are the exact differences between royals who have inherited, unquestionable absolute power and a strong self imposed emperor with unquestionable absolute power).
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 PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:12 am Reply with quote  
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  DarthSanith
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i agree with mara and joe on this, i would to take an ewok luau any day. But you know the thing is if they had done the other ending instead we wouldnt know the difference, but im glad they didnt do that one cause that would of sucked.
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 PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:16 am Reply with quote  
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  VileZero
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I find the ending of ROTJ, with the Force ghosts, to be a powerful enough ending as is, IMO.


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 PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:35 pm Reply with quote  
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  Commander_Zasso
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to me it really dosent seem like the right way to tie up the series, which would have been really depressing if they went this route. i was extreemly happy with how ROTJ wrapped up, ewoks and all


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 PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:44 am Reply with quote  
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  wookie_inked
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I love Ewoks so I'm glad they played a huge role in the finally OT movie.


the alternate /discarded plot wouldn't have worked IMO, I don't like it either for a lot of reasons. Luke as a loner AND last of the Jedi? Apparently he was suppsed to to turn into a younger crazy hermit Ben? Ummm no. Rescue Han just to have him die 20 minutes later? HELL NO! oh and Queen Leia, really? Queen of what exactly since Alderaan was vaporized...


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 PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:01 am Reply with quote  
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  darthrevan1
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Harrison Ford himself wanted Han to be killed but Lucas wouldnt hear of it. Rumours abounded he was bored with the character and hated the outfit he had to wear. Ford would have been doing Temple of Doom at the time and Witness as well.

I agree the Rebellion was in tatters after ROTJ. They never quite had peace in the galaxy. Dont really agree with the alternate ending.
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 PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:35 am Reply with quote  
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  Taral-DLOS
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Thinking about alternate endings and ideas, I always liked the fan theory (from the 1980s) that Obi-Wan Kenobi was actually OB-1, a clone warrior.

http://www.cracked.com/article_19266_5-movie-fan-theories-that-make-more-sense-than-movie_p2.html

Look for #1.

Admittedly, that link is from a humor website, but the theory was real. I had a professor who believed it before he and his buddies saw ROTJ for the first time.

It actually closes some plot holes nicely, like why Obi-Wan would change his first name (to Ben), but keep his last name, even though he's being hunted by the Empire (it would be more logical to change his name to Obi-Wan Smith). Also, it explained why he had no memory of owning droids, or that C-3PO was built by Vader. It was his youth, it was the youth of his template.
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