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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:20 pm
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Queen Padmè Skywalker Master Joined: 17 Jul 2009 Posts: 4926 Location: Sitting in front of a fireplace on Naboo exchanging pathetic dialogue with Anakin Old Master Ben wrote: This is true, but people burn other books, which I guess could be seen as mocking the freedoms that our troops fight for. While we are on the subject - what do you all think of building a Mosque two blocks from the World Trade Center site? .....I'm not even going to get in to that. I feel rather strongly about it. _________________ All things die, Anakin Skywalker, even stars burn out. So this is how liberty dies....with thunderous applause. Those without swords can still die upon them The world is a mess and I just need to rule it.

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:30 pm
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Jedi Joe Master Joined: 11 Jun 2009 Posts: 1346

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:33 am
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Caedus_16 Master Joined: 15 Apr 2008 Posts: 4400 Location: Korriban @Joe Ha...haha _________________ Perfection is a lifelong pursuit requiring sacrifice. The only way to get it quicker is to sacrifice the most.

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:44 am
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Mara Jade Skywalker Master Joined: 15 Feb 2008 Posts: 5359 Location: Beyond Shadows Oh, Joe. *shakes head sadly* _________________ "It's not about the legacy you leave, it's about the life you live." ~Mara Jade Skywalker

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:37 am
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Queen Padmè Skywalker Master Joined: 17 Jul 2009 Posts: 4926 Location: Sitting in front of a fireplace on Naboo exchanging pathetic dialogue with Anakin *snickers* _________________ All things die, Anakin Skywalker, even stars burn out. So this is how liberty dies....with thunderous applause. Those without swords can still die upon them The world is a mess and I just need to rule it.

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:15 am
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Cerrinea Master Joined: 09 Jun 2009 Posts: 1410 I think allowing the mosque would be a physical demonstration of one of the basic tenants of our constitution: Freedom of Religion. It would also be our statement to the world that we differentiate between religion and those who use the cloak of religion to commit acts or terrorism. I have never accepted that excuse from the muslim extremists. They aren't practicing religion as they see it; they just use it as an excuse to unleash the hatred within themselves. I know it's not that simplistic, but on a basic level, it really is that simple. As for burning the Koran; couldn't that be considered a hate crime?

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:28 pm
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Autobon Master Joined: 17 Apr 2008 Posts: 751 Location: Seattle, Washington This burning of the Koran is really moronic. It solves nothing, the media is going to focus on this nutcase and portray him as your average Christian, etc. Though of course the average Christian is just as secular as anybody, not knowing what they believe or why........ but I digress..... As for retaliation from Muslims, I couldnt really care less. They already hate us and would just as easily use something else as an excuse to further retaliate. I dont understand why we think this one guy burning a Koran will set the whole world ablaze with hate. This is sensationalist journalism at its best, and most everyone is falling for it. Cerrinea wrote: As for burning the Koran; couldn't that be considered a hate crime? How is this a hate crime? Actually, I would rather you define "hate" crime, as almost nobody even knows what that means. Its just thrown around all the time and used for almost every situation, which is extremely dangerous.

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:48 pm
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Old Master Ben Administrator Joined: 10 Nov 2007 Posts: 2254 Location: Georgia Exactly Autobon. Almost everyone is making a big deal out of a few people doing this. What makes you think that our enemies won't as well? Sure, they already hate us, but retaliation to our moves can come much faster if they are provoked by seeing this.

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:39 pm
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Cerrinea Master Joined: 09 Jun 2009 Posts: 1410 Quote: Hate crimes (also known as bias-motivated crimes) occur when a perpetrator targets a victim because of his or her perceived membership in a certain social group, usually defined by racial group, religion, sexual orientation, disability, class, ethnicity, nationality, age, gender, gender identity, or political affiliation.[1] "Hate crime" generally refers to criminal acts which are seen to have been motivated by hatred of one or more of the listed conditions. Incidents may involve physical assault, damage to property, bullying, harassment, verbal abuse or insults, or offensive graffiti or letters The perpetrator of the Koran burning can dress it up any way he likes and excuse it with bible quotations, but his motivation is hatred, plain and simple. He's indicting an entire religion and its members on the acts of terrorists -- which is not a muslim precept to begin with. I really dislike generalizing about anything, such as saying all muslims hate us, or all christians don't consider the Koran a holy book. Speak for yourself, but don't speak for me or anyone else. Last edited by Cerrinea on Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:53 pm; edited 1 time in total

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:49 pm
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Salaris Vorn Moderator Joined: 02 Feb 2008 Posts: 2039 Location: New York, USA Old Master Ben wrote: Exactly Autobon. Almost everyone is making a big deal out of a few people doing this. What makes you think that our enemies won't as well? Sure, they already hate us, but retaliation to our moves can come much faster if they are provoked by seeing this. If I may also add its important for us to treat this book burning as a serious thing. If for no other reason than to demonstrate that he doesn't speak for the majority of Americans/Westerners. Granted the people who already hate us will use this regardless of what we do. But standing up and saying this book burning isn't right might make the difference between whether we have more or fewer enemies. The risk of making more enemies isn't worth the risk and certainly such acts as this book burning or apathy towards it is going to encourage more hatred and enemies not less. Just because our enemies hate us doesn't justify hating them back with equal passion (mind you I'm not suggesting we be submissive and let them kill us either). In my view if we give into that hatred we'll become no better than the people we are fighting (how can we take the high road as being better than them if we give in to equal hatred and intolerance?) Apathy or treating it like it is nothing will fuel hate abroad far more than standing up and declaring it unacceptable. At least in my view treating any act of hate, however small the group carrying it out may be, as not very important makes you no better than the ones performing the act. Certainly that is how many people will likely see it if we don't declare this book burning unacceptable. _________________

Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:46 pm
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Autobon Master Joined: 17 Apr 2008 Posts: 751 Location: Seattle, Washington Cerrinea wrote: The perpetrator of the Koran burning can dress it up any way he likes and excuse it with bible quotations, but his motivation is hatred, plain and simple. You may call it hateful, but it isn't a crime, just as burning a bible wouldn't be a crime. We have freedoms in this country that allow you to do stupid things, whether people like it or not. You can complain all you want about it, but you cannot call it crime. That would be false.

Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:47 pm
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Caedus_16 Master Joined: 15 Apr 2008 Posts: 4400 Location: Korriban It can't be called a crime, but can we at least agree that it does nothing but hurt his cause and that all it makes him do is look like a hate filled man? _________________ Perfection is a lifelong pursuit requiring sacrifice. The only way to get it quicker is to sacrifice the most.

Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:53 pm
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Autobon Master Joined: 17 Apr 2008 Posts: 751 Location: Seattle, Washington I think everyone on this forum would agree that this guy is a lunatic and an embarrassment.

Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:34 pm
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Reepicheep Master Joined: 05 Feb 2008 Posts: 5959 Location: Sailing into the unknown Autobon wrote: Cerrinea wrote: The perpetrator of the Koran burning can dress it up any way he likes and excuse it with bible quotations, but his motivation is hatred, plain and simple. You may call it hateful, but it isn't a crime, just as burning a bible wouldn't be a crime. We have freedoms in this country that allow you to do stupid things, whether people like it or not. You can complain all you want about it, but you cannot call it crime. That would be false. We were talking about this in my Law class today. I was shocked that their isn't a law against this. _________________ Where sky and water meet, Where the waves grow sweet, Doubt not, Reepicheep, To find all you seek, There is the utter east.

Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:39 pm
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Old Master Ben Administrator Joined: 10 Nov 2007 Posts: 2254 Location: Georgia You're perfectly entitled to destroy any personal possession that you want. Can't make that illegal, and singling out specific religious book burnings as illegal would be mixing government with religion.

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