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Darth Vader: When did he turn back?
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Darth Vader: When did he turn back?
 PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:08 pm Reply with quote  
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  Old Master Ben
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When do you think Darth Vader turned back to the light-side again? Some people say it was when he saw Luke being tortured by Palpatine, but I think it was before that. My guess is that is happened sometime around the Darth Vader/Luke duel on Bespin. When Luke decided not to go with Vader and control the galaxy, even though he could, that was a big moment for him.


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 PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:55 pm Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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What do the books say on this? I know they wrote a couple young reader books on Vader that I haven't read yet. Have they shed any light on this issue?

Just going by the movies I'd say that Vader probably began questioning the dark side again after his duel with Luke. The more he saw of Luke, the more the tiny voice inside of him began growing until he up and decided to do something about it. He'd been planning to take out the Emperor for a long time, part of that was his Sith training. But when the Emperor was Force shocking Luke, Vader saw his opportunity and struck along with the voice of the light inside of him that finally returned. It was only at that point that the light was really with him, in my opinion. There was always a sliver with him, and that sliver began growing after Bespin, but it was significant until Endor. More or less.
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 PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:33 am Reply with quote  
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  Aush
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I have to agree with Darth Skuldren. However, Vader seems to want to get Luke to join him as a Sith to defeat the Emperor and rule the galaxy as "father and son." However, I think that could also be where the voice started to whisper more and it continued to gain influence between Episodes V and VI. Also, the definite moment where I think Vader started to realize this influence was when Luke confronted him on Endor and mentioned the good within him. As for their duel in Death Star II, I think that's guilty to still owing Palpatine for all he's done but when he came down to Palpatine or Luke, the doubt won out.
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 PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:05 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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I think the thought was planted at the Bespin duel, but it didn't come to full fruition till the duel on the second Death Star. I loved that duel, by the way. My favorite duel from the movies period. Kind of a moving duel. Really the fastest and most hardcore duel in the old trilogy. And plus, the old trilogy was just better.
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 PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:23 pm Reply with quote  
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  Darth Judicar
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Caedus_16 wrote:
I think the thought was planted at the Bespin duel, but it didn't come to full fruition till the duel on the second Death Star. I loved that duel, by the way. My favorite duel from the movies period. Kind of a moving duel. Really the fastest and most hardcore duel in the old trilogy. And plus, the old trilogy was just better.


Nicely phrased. That sounds right to me.
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 PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:17 pm Reply with quote  
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  Iron Fist
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I think the moments of doubt were sowed during Bespin and on Endor but they didn't come to fruition until the moment when Palpatine tortured Luke. Vader's light side was like a Redwood tree. The seeds didn't begin to grow until they were bathed in fire. Razz


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 PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:04 pm Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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Darth Skuldren wrote:
What do the books say on this? I know they wrote a couple young reader books on Vader that I haven't read yet. Have they shed any light on this issue?


His bio suggests it was right there as he KNEW Palpatine was about to kill Luke- LUKE who was a part of Padme still living before him, and he decided to act to save his son.
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 PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:10 pm Reply with quote  
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  kurtdc
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Oh, I don't think he flipped over until he saw Luke about to die. Right up to that point, I think he wanted Luke to go to the dark side and for the two of the to take out Palpy.

Once he realized that wasn't going to happen AND luke was about to be killed, it finally flipped the switch that to get rid of palpatine, he had to do it as a Jedi, not as a sith.


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 PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:17 pm Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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kurtdc wrote:
Oh, I don't think he flipped over until he saw Luke about to die. Right up to that point, I think he wanted Luke to go to the dark side and for the two of the to take out Palpy.

Once he realized that wasn't going to happen AND luke was about to be killed, it finally flipped the switch that to get rid of palpatine, he had to do it as a Jedi, not as a sith.


Yeah that''s pretty much my take on the events as well.

Though I could see Vader ponder it, but I think in the end he realized that the Power of the DS ends with destruction. And it wasn't the way to victory.
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 PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:28 pm Reply with quote  
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  Jedi Joe
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I noticed that in ROTJ, he seemed very kind and forgiving to his officers. I think that had something to do with the duel on Bespin.
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 PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:36 pm Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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Jedi Joe wrote:
I noticed that in ROTJ, he seemed very kind and forgiving to his officers. I think that had something to do with the duel on Bespin.


That and seeing C3PO dismantled.
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 PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:01 am Reply with quote  
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  Life Is The Path
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kurtdc wrote:
Oh, I don't think he flipped over until he saw Luke about to die. Right up to that point, I think he wanted Luke to go to the dark side and for the two of the to take out Palpy.

Once he realized that wasn't going to happen AND luke was about to be killed, it finally flipped the switch that to get rid of palpatine, he had to do it as a Jedi, not as a sith.


Is it too late to add to this thread?
I'm going to have to agree with Kurt up to a point. Seeds may have been planted during the ESB fight, but I don't think they were so much to do with turning to the Light Side, more to do with being with his son. To me, his wanting to save his son during ROTJ felt like it was coming from a very selfish place (as in, not because he felt he had to do it as a Jedi), much like him wanting to save Padme, he wanted to save Luke, and it was only in that moment that his return to the Light Side had started (I mean it started properly in his conscious mind, I make no denial that his subconscious or unconscious mind could have formulated ideas beforehand).
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 PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:04 am Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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Perhaps the momentous outcome of his one little selfish action was enough to bring him back to the light fully. Kind of stretching it, but it would seem that way. His action wasn't entirely selfish seeing that he did kill himself in the act and afterwards didn't even try and survive. But it was somewhat sefish since it was his son. I don't think that pollutes the good dead too much. The real issue is the fact he sat back while his kid got electrocuted for a good while...and cut off his hand in the previous movie.
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 PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:33 am Reply with quote  
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  darthrevan1
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I havent really thought about this until now but the first time you see Vader really question his allegiance is when Luke surrenders to the imperials on Endor. As he is being lead away Vader looks pensive leaning on a rail in contemplation. To me hes already unsure.

For me when Vader hurls Palpatine down a shaft its as much a sith thing to do as a Jedi. After all Sith turn on each other all the time. Had Palpatines force lighning not damaged his suit Vader would have lived and maybe tried again to get Luke to side with him? Maybe.
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 PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:38 am Reply with quote  
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  Taral-DLOS
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I think the moment where he finally decided to turn back coincides exactly with his "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!"
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