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Vergere's True Nature
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Do you agree?
Yes-Vergere is a Jedi
55%
 55%  [ 5 ]
No-Vergere is a Sith
44%
 44%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 9

 PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:55 pm Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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Hah! That would be funny, to learn that Vergere lied to Lumiya just to learn about her and gain her trust. In fact that almost makes sense. Maybe Vergere talked with Lumiya and Lumiya revealed that she would like to turn Jacen. Then perhaps Vergere tried to intervene to protect Jacen.

Regardless I'm thoroughly set that she wasn't right in the head. Anyone who would use torture the way she did is nuts, regardless of what she was trying to accomplish.
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 PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:13 pm Reply with quote  
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  FatalFist
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IN my opinion...Vergere was definately a Jedi...First of...Sith LOVE ATTACHMENTS...and Vergere HATED the fact that Luke and Mara had a SON....helooo...complete contradiction to wat Lumiya says abt Vergere being a Sith-
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Secondly yes She would've liked/agreed to Alpha Red had she been A Sith....
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She told Jacen constantly that everything she would say would be a Lie...and thats true...in a way...she did lie abt nt being a Jedi anymore and abt lots of other stuff...and SO did Lumiya...Lumiya simply used Vergere and her teachings to sway Jacen(BTW THE REASON JACEN DECIDES TO GO SITH IS SOOO SUPER-LAME=s)
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 PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:57 am Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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Sith are simply people who share some common principles. There's no reason they can't have differing opinions and splinter sects of their order. Look at the Jedi. They had all kinds, including the Gray Jedi and Jedi Paladins, both of which had very different opinions on the Force and the Jedi beliefs.
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 PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:33 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Something tells me that Vergere could have stopped Alpha Red and still been Sith. She was thinking more of galactic preserevation which, if you've read Outbound Flight, so was Sidious. He went to great lengths to keep the Yuuzhan Vong out of known space as long as possible. Yeah he was evil, yeah he was megalomaniacal, but he was also interested in preserving the Sith legacy. Vergere believed the same thing. She was a Jedi/Sith mixture. She adopted principles of both orders that she believed were worth saving. I don't think we can assign her an affiliation, but we can see her work. She used torture, which seems Sith and indeed planted the seed of Caedus in Jacen's heart. But she also revered life as we saw in the destruction of Alpha Red. We also saw her sacrifice herself for Jacen, but we aren't sure whether or not it was because she saw him as the Jedi who would beat the Vong or as the Sith that could die to unite the galaxy. Either way, she may have been the most pivitol character in both the NJO and the LOTF.
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 PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:27 am Reply with quote  
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  FatalFist
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I guess then wat I really want to say is that regardless of Vergere being a Sith/Jedi...SHE DIDNT WANT THIS PATH FOR JACEN...Lumiya is simply using Vergere...she uses Vergeres teachings to sway Jacen...Jacen doesnt realize I guess how opposing Vergeres teachings were frm Lumiyas...Lumiya=likes attachments---Vergere=Opposes
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Secondly...(This is the incident where Vergere has Jacen captured and serving with the World Brains)When Vergere tells Jacen to Choose the weak(the ones who shudnt be saved) and save the strong ones...Jacen ends up choosing Yuuzhan Vong warriors as weak...while Vergere used such stuff to get such outcomes...Lumiya just wanted a Sith dynasty of sort.....
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 PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:11 am Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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Well even Lumiya didn't want the outcome Jacen chose. He was too reckless and uncontrolled. It was like a young, inexperienced Vader on the warpath and blinded by lofty ideals. She certainly didn't want him to die and squandered with short reign as a Sith Lord.
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"I believe toys resonate with us as humans, we can hold them them, it's tactile, real! They are totems for our extended beliefs and imaginations. A fetish for ideas that hold as much interest and passion as old religious relics for some. We display them in our homes. They show who we are. They are signals for similar thinking people. A way we connect with each other...and I guess thats why I do toys. That connection." -Ashley Wood


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 PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:20 pm Reply with quote  
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  FatalFist
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I meant Vergere wouldnt hav endorsed Jacens action such as killing Mara and the ultimate sacrifice cra-a-p....
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 PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:34 pm Reply with quote  
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  Aush
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It's hard to tell what Vergere would or would not allow because of such a grey character she is. I do agree that she adopted teachings from both the Jedi and Sith, but so did Luke. He does believe emotions give you power and you can use them, but you walk a thin line between light and dark and to keep from falling either way, you must be in control. It's very fun to discuss these light and dark views because it's very easy to contradict yourself with different scenarios (I'm sure someone could point out contradictions I've made Laughing)

As for the torture Vergere did in Traitor, she did that because that's what she had to work with, which she said in that book or in Destiny's Way. I just had a discussion today concerning the Embrace of Pain and pain as a teacher, and both of us came to the conclusion that it's a very tricky subject. Vergere wanted to show the benefits of emotions and how small we really are; the Embrace of Pain and world brain seed were the means for those lessons although the ethics and morals of such things are debatable (as I'm sure Vergere would agree with). Of course, this is my interpretation, and discussing it again makes me wish I had time to read Traitor again Very Happy
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