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S3 - Episode 17: Ghosts of Mortis
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 PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:19 am Reply with quote  
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  Jedi Joe
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Yes, I know I am coming back momentarily from my forum hiatus, but this episode pushed me over the edge too hard. (A week late thanks to Youtube Razz )

Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)


Was Season III the Clone Wars' point of redemption? Absolutely not.

Joe out... Wink


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 PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:24 am Reply with quote  
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  Life Is The Path
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Not sure ... what to feel, what to think ... I feel so lost ... Confused
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I am a Star Wars fan. That doesn't mean that I hate or love Jar Jar. That doesn't mean I hate or love Lucas, or agree or disagree 100% with him. That doesn't mean I prefer the PT over the OT, or vice versa. That doesn't mean I hate the EU, or even love all of it. These are not prerequisites. Being a man is not a prerequisite. Being a geek is not a prerequisite. The only prerequisite is that I love something about Star Wars. I am a Star Wars fan.

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 PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:31 am Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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I am so with you, on this, Joe! I can't believe they actually made an episode worse than Downfall of a Droid... Confused
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 PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:42 pm Reply with quote  
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  Queen Padmè Skywalker
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I'm with ya, too, Joe. Just...just...why?
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So this is how liberty dies....with thunderous applause.



Those without swords can still die upon them

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 PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:15 am Reply with quote  
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  Life Is The Path
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Okay, I still can't hit the nail on the head as to why this bugged me so much. Don't get me wrong, I like the philosophical side of things. Sure, I may not be a big hitter when compared to you fine people, but I like to think on these things, so in a sense that part I liked about this show. However, on the whole, I'm going to have to say this, and the arc as a whole, are not good ones.
But why? It started off so well. Now this is probably going to turn into a rant, so you've been warned.
It's probably best to start at the ending, something I know why I don't like. I'm presuming you've all seen it by now so I'll not have the spoiler tag. That ending, having it seem like a dream, I don't like. Never have. Never will. Bare with me. I'm aware that it leaves it open to interpretation, that it could have been a changing of the timeline, or that it was all a vision, happening in the blink of an eye, or what have you, but even with those reasons in place I still don't like it. Still not mollified. It's a cheap storytelling trick and Star Wars is simply, or perhaps should be, better than that.
The rest of it, I don't know. Maybe it's simply because it highlights the ways in which TCW can make itself better - that it needs to be a longer show, maybe an hour, allowing it to get more in depth. Maybe that's not it.
It can't simply be because it's retelling ROTS because Star Wars, and many other sci-fi franchises, redo storylines, or do things in ode to other stories. That's just the genre. It's very difficult to write an original story without copying what something else has done, and in Star Wars especially, as it's well known to mimic phrases and other scenes, but in a new context.

Well, I'm still none the wiser, probably never will be. I guess, if I turn my brain off, ignore ROTS, as if it hasn't happened yet, then it's a good episode.
But it has happened.
_________________
I am a Star Wars fan. That doesn't mean that I hate or love Jar Jar. That doesn't mean I hate or love Lucas, or agree or disagree 100% with him. That doesn't mean I prefer the PT over the OT, or vice versa. That doesn't mean I hate the EU, or even love all of it. These are not prerequisites. Being a man is not a prerequisite. Being a geek is not a prerequisite. The only prerequisite is that I love something about Star Wars. I am a Star Wars fan.

Life is like the Force - Luke Skywalker, Crucible. Damn straight I am.


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 PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:41 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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I think the only way they could've ended the episode was to make it seem like a dream. For me that's its only saving grace. But even then, if it was Anakin's dream, how could he dream somehing and then be mind wiped in his dream? This arc is borked no matter what angle you look at it from...
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Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.


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 PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:43 pm Reply with quote  
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  Queen Padmè Skywalker
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It was just a cheap play on the events of RotS. I still hate it.
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All things die, Anakin Skywalker, even stars burn out.

So this is how liberty dies....with thunderous applause.



Those without swords can still die upon them

The world is a mess and I just need to rule it.


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 PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:33 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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The episode retold all six films. Anakin joins the Son and then betrays him. It solidifies the meaning of Anakin bringing balance to the Force via defeating Palpatine, and provided an allegory for the viewer to understand how the Force went out of balance and how it was restored.

I liked what someone at TFN said: that Anakin's act to restore balance was both light and dark, a selfless betrayal, embodying both Jedi and Sith.

The episode also explored the cosmology of the Force, what the light and dark side are and why they're both necessary. Also it further reinforced the whole "middle path" concept used by Jacen in the NJO, and espoused by Qui-Gon: the Unifying Force.

It's also interesting that Anakin "turned" to the dark side for the same reason in the episode that he inevitably does -- visions of the future and seeking to prevent them. There's a lot of symbolism in the episode -- originally I had read the idea that the dagger of Mortis represented Anakin: retrieved to defeat the dark side, it was turned against the light. But now I'm wondering if it represents the Clone Army. The Jedi retrieve it to defeat the Sith, but it's turned against the Jedi via the machinations of the Sith, whose intention all along was for the Jedi to pick it up and position it so that it could be used against them.


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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:17 am Reply with quote  
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  Life Is The Path
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Rolling Eyes
Yeah, but if you've seen the films, wouldn't that make this arc a bit superfluous?
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I am a Star Wars fan. That doesn't mean that I hate or love Jar Jar. That doesn't mean I hate or love Lucas, or agree or disagree 100% with him. That doesn't mean I prefer the PT over the OT, or vice versa. That doesn't mean I hate the EU, or even love all of it. These are not prerequisites. Being a man is not a prerequisite. Being a geek is not a prerequisite. The only prerequisite is that I love something about Star Wars. I am a Star Wars fan.

Life is like the Force - Luke Skywalker, Crucible. Damn straight I am.


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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:49 am Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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^ Agreed. Rolling Eyes

Maybe this was just me, but I though the light and dark thing was presented as fact in this episode, not interperatation. Confused
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Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.


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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:13 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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Life Is The Path wrote:
Rolling Eyes
Yeah, but if you've seen the films, wouldn't that make this arc a bit superfluous?


In what way is it superfluous? Do the films explain how Anakin, as the Chosen One, brings balance to the Force? I think a trilogy of episodes that act as an allegory for the journey of the Chosen One, rife with symbolism, that explain the prophecy of the Chosen One is probably the best thing to be produced in Star Wars in some time.

I'm not quite sure where you arrive at the conclusion that it's superfluous, or how it's so obvious this is the case that you're rolling your eyes about it. No SW material has explained the prophecy in any depth before. I'd say it's pretty necessary considering that it's been my experience in SW forums that people still debate how Anakin brought balance to the Force, with some still insisting that he did so by reducing the playing field to 2 Jedi and 2 Sith.

As for interpretation vs. fact, is that why people are bothered by it? Do they not like the way the Force is presented? I suppose that's understandable, it's the same reason why a lot of people disliked the NJO, which seemed to have a similar presentation of the Force.


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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:08 pm Reply with quote  
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  adamqd
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The Stories and Characters Dealt with in the CW are irrelevant to me and my personal Canon (Other than its effect on EU I do like)... I had Closure on the Clone Wars in 2005, I'm Just happy that the Shapeshifting Gods were just an Allegory, because that my friends is not Star Wars Smile
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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:58 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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LivingJediDream wrote:
Life Is The Path wrote:
Rolling Eyes
Yeah, but if you've seen the films, wouldn't that make this arc a bit superfluous?


In what way is it superfluous? Do the films explain how Anakin, as the Chosen One, brings balance to the Force? I think a trilogy of episodes that act as an allegory for the journey of the Chosen One, rife with symbolism, that explain the prophecy of the Chosen One is probably the best thing to be produced in Star Wars in some time.

I never undstood the confusion. Anakin brought balance to the Force by dropping Palpz down a well. I don't understand what is so hard about that. So, yes, a re-hash of the films does seem superfluous to me. Although I guess that depends on whether you think the Chosen One prophecy works the way I think it works...

LivingJediDream wrote:

As for interpretation vs. fact, is that why people are bothered by it? Do they not like the way the Force is presented? I suppose that's understandable, it's the same reason why a lot of people disliked the NJO, which seemed to have a similar presentation of the Force.

I don't like dark and light balancing. It's just weak philosophy...
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Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.


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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:31 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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Reepicheep wrote:
I never undstood the confusion. Anakin brought balance to the Force by dropping Palpz down a well. I don't understand what is so hard about that. So, yes, a re-hash of the films does seem superfluous to me. Although I guess that depends on whether you think the Chosen One prophecy works the way I think it works...


It's not a rehash of the films, though. Legacy of the Force is a rehash of the films. This, not so much.

As for the confusion, I am guessing people thought Anakin balanced the Force by establishing a situation whereby there were two Jedi and two Sith.

Reepicheep wrote:
I don't like dark and light balancing. It's just weak philosophy...


I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean.


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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:31 pm Reply with quote  
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  Queen Padmè Skywalker
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I'm mostly with Reep on this one. I didn't think the arc was necessary. Anyone who had already seen the films already knew the concepts they were trying to present. And, like Reep, I don't think that light and dark balance in the sense that as long as they're equal, the galaxy is fine. The RotS novel describes the "dark" as ever growing, always consuming, never stagnant. So, it can never be "balanced" or perfectly equal to the light. The light must be greater for there to be true balance. Anyway, not sure if that made any sense, but there's my opinion.
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All things die, Anakin Skywalker, even stars burn out.

So this is how liberty dies....with thunderous applause.



Those without swords can still die upon them

The world is a mess and I just need to rule it.


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