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Dark siders or people mentally unstable
 PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:07 am Reply with quote  
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  Nedara
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I think this is the right place for this, but if it isn't, please, move it.

I've always believed people doesn't wake up one day and decides to be the bad guy. After seeing a French study about how Anakin showed some serious symptoms of being a mentally ill person, I just wondered how many Sith Lords were really in the same position.

So, what do you think? Is it possible some of the most ruthless Sith Lords are just people with a broken, ill psyche?


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 PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:20 am Reply with quote  
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  YodaBauer2442
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It is certainly possible. It would be interesting to compare some characters to symptoms. I am afraid I am no psychologist though.
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 PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:24 am Reply with quote  
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  Nedara
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Me either, but some of them have lived very traumatic situations. Bane and his father or Caedus and his captivity are just some examples and both situations could have left very deep after effect in them.


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 PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:04 pm Reply with quote  
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  Lord Ree'dius
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I think it very possible and even likely/obvious that some dark siders are mentally disturbed to say the least.
With some characters it's quite obvious there's something not right (like C'boath's clone or Lord Kaan), but I wouldn't go as far as to say that all Sith/dark siders where mentally ill.

I think there are differnt categories of darksiders.
Those born into Sith Culture (eg. The lost tribe of the Sith) for example wouldn't have to be mentally ill, but would just live the way they where brought up. They would almost naturally have a different worldview.
Although Anakin/Vader was certainly scarred by the events in his life I feel that he was ultimatly corrupted by Palpatine to join the dark side and that it was Palpatine that made him cross the line between light and dark. I myself would not call Anakin mentally ill as much as scared and desparate and it was on these feelings that Palpy played him. This is also kind off what I think happend to Jacen Solo. Jacen was just a kid that questioned his place in things before his capture by the Vong. He certainly didn't strike me as a mentally disturbed person before that.
Still other dark siders (eg. Sidious, Set Harth, Darth Cognus to name a few) seem just naturally inclined towards the dark side in a way that their ruthlessness and selfishness and their views on life just seems to lead them there. Are these mentally ill? That's something that could be argued I guess, but I'm inclined to say that those dark siders are just evil and not mentally ill perse.
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 PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:34 pm Reply with quote  
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  Nedara
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Well, I didn't mean to say all of them are ill. Like you said, The Lost Tribe don't have to be like that. That's their culture and they have a little different point of view of things -like their idea they'll save the galaxy. Cadeus, on the other hand... A kidnap is always traumatic and he was kidnaped long before he was captured by the vong. This is just one traumatic experience in his life and he had a lot.

Vader was a slave and that's traumatic, too. He had to leave his mother behind before he was 10, breaking his bond with the only family he had known. And he had to life with the idea he had killed his wife and child. I don't think that would help him a lot to keep his sanity.


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 PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:38 pm Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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Well I would almost argue Anakin was insane when he killed the younglings. There are not very many people who can kill a child and still somehow be considered sane. But then that's always been a weak plot point for me. I've never been fully convinced with Anakin's jump between being a Jedi who might help Sidious kill Windu in order to learn a way to save Padme, and with his wholesale slaughter of the Temple younglings.
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 PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:41 pm Reply with quote  
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  Old Master Ben
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Darth Skuldren wrote:
Well I would almost argue Anakin was insane when he killed the younglings. There are not very many people who can kill a child and still somehow be considered sane. But then that's always been a weak plot point for me. I've never been fully convinced with Anakin's jump between being a Jedi who might help Sidious kill Windu in order to learn a way to save Padme, and with his wholesale slaughter of the Temple younglings.


If Anakin was insane, it was because of the dark side. I don't think that Anakin was really an insane person before he turned into Darth Vader, and I don't believe that any kind of mental illness caused him to turn. He had just gone through a lot in a life, made some wrong choices, and paid the price. It happens to many perfectly sane people, though normally on a much smaller scale.


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 PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:42 pm Reply with quote  
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  Lord Ree'dius
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Nedara wrote:
Well, I didn't mean to say all of them are ill. Like you said, The Lost Tribe don't have to be like that. That's their culture and they have a little different point of view of things -like their idea they'll save the galaxy. Cadeus, on the other hand... A kidnap is always traumatic and he was kidnaped long before he was captured by the vong. This is just one traumatic experience in his life and he had a lot.

Vader was a slave and that's traumatic, too. He had to leave his mother behind before he was 10, breaking his bond with the only family he had known. And he had to life with the idea he had killed his wife and child. I don't think that would help him a lot to keep his sanity.


I understand where you are coming from, but it's more of how you define mentally ill. Having had a traumatic experience doesn't automatically make one mentaly ill, although it can. But I myself see a difference between being mentally ill and being mentally unstable or even going through a rough patch and becoming suspectible to corruption that way.

As I said I never felt that Jacen would be mentally ill (although I wouldn't deny him having had enough trauma's before) before his capture by the Vong and him essentailly being corrupted in a subtle way by Vergere. I rather think of it as him being in a really rough spot right there and having been weakend by what happend on Myrkr just before. I don't see him as mentally ill there.

As for Anakin, I would say he's mentally unstable and troubled and I think of him that way all through the PT. He is certainly scarred emotionally and has a lot of anger and fear in him (as the Jedi Councel allready points out in ep.1). It are these emotions that are ultimately his downfall to the dark side because of them being exploited by Palpatine. Anakin wouldn't in my opinion have fallen to the dark side if not for Sidious' influence over him. And apart from preying on these emotions Sidious also justifies Anakins' every bad move as being only natural and logical.
If Anakin did become mentally ill it was because of Sidious and not before, the way I see things.

If having fear and anger in you or having had a trauma in your life ( although I'm not saying that these are good things) makes one mentally ill then there would be very little sane people left.
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 PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:01 pm Reply with quote  
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  Nedara
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Has someone thought that some traumas can lead to a mental break?

BTW, here you can read about Vader's study.


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 PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:16 pm Reply with quote  
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  Lord Ree'dius
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Old Master Ben wrote:
If Anakin was insane, it was because of the dark side. I don't think that Anakin was really an insane person before he turned into Darth Vader, and I don't believe that any kind of mental illness caused him to turn. He had just gone through a lot in a life, made some wrong choices, and paid the price. It happens to many perfectly sane people, though normally on a much smaller scale.

I have to totally agree with you on this Old Master Ben and I also think that that's the way the story is meant.

@Nedara:
Quote:
Has someone thought that some traumas can lead to a mental break?

Yes, I acknowledged that, but I just don't think that that's the case with Anakin
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 PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:03 pm Reply with quote  
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  Darth_Henning
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Personally, my opinion is that they're just like most corrupt politicians. They don't start out evil (I'm ignoring those indoctrinated from birth), but wanting more power for whatever reason - personal greed, desire to make a difference, a vision.

Then they get corrupted, using the powers they have to use are applied to remove those in their way, and it sort of snowballs.

Mentally ill? perhaps to the point that they don't realize that they're evil until its too late and they then need to hold onto their power, or become obsessed with it.

What I'd really like to see is a story that explores a sith lord who rose to power trying to make a difference, became corrupted, realized it, but fought to keep his position against the republic because he had worked so hard to attain it, even if he knew what he was doing was wrong. The moral conflict involved would be incredible to read.


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 PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:28 pm Reply with quote  
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  Queen Padmè Skywalker
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Darth Skuldren wrote:
Well I would almost argue Anakin was insane when he killed the younglings. There are not very many people who can kill a child and still somehow be considered sane. But then that's always been a weak plot point for me. I've never been fully convinced with Anakin's jump between being a Jedi who might help Sidious kill Windu in order to learn a way to save Padme, and with his wholesale slaughter of the Temple younglings.


Well, at that point, Sidious had convinced Anakin that the entire Order was part of a conspiracy to eliminate the Senate. Yes, Anakin latched on to this too quickly and too easily, but it does kind of show that he did need an actual reason to slaughter the Jedi. If I remember right, this was better explained in the novel.
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Re: Dark siders or people mentally unstable
 PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:28 am Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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Nedara wrote:
I think this is the right place for this, but if it isn't, please, move it.

I've always believed people doesn't wake up one day and decides to be the bad guy. After seeing a French study about how Anakin showed some serious symptoms of being a mentally ill person, I just wondered how many Sith Lords were really in the same position.

So, what do you think? Is it possible some of the most ruthless Sith Lords are just people with a broken, ill psyche?


I would like to say SWEU has been a history of people being pushed into situations that shaped them into the Sith they would become. Kun for one- he was left crippled - his only way out to accept the Sith training.

Bane- his life as Diesel was one that lead him down the path to the Sith. Darth Krayt is the same.

There are exceptions to every rule, but I think for the most part Sith preyed on their pupils- they were almost vultures in this regard luring their heirs of the Dark Side to the Sith Order.
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 PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:40 am Reply with quote  
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  Life Is The Path
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Oh, I have no doubt that some Sith Lords were mentally unstable. Take Daiman and Odion, for example. Absolutely no one can call them sane.

But I think those who are mentally imbalanced would be in the minority of the number of Sith Lords.
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 PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 2:30 am Reply with quote  
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  Dancelittleewok
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Since her name hasn't been brought up, how do you guys feel about Alema Rar? In Star by Star, she witnesses her sister get murdered by the Voxyn, then her Master falls as well. In the bug trilogy (forgive me I forget its name now), Alema Rar joins the Gorog and after they are wiped out, starts using the pronoun "we" to describe herself.

It's undeniable that grief played a huge part in her downfall, but she also joined with Lomi Plo. And could be arguably insane in LOTF.

If some dark siders are insane, wouldn't that mitigate their actions? How morally responsible can they truly be?
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