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Legacy Of The Force: Invincible Discussion
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 PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 4:08 pm Reply with quote  
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  MasterAndrew15
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but I do have to say that I don't like how they wasted him

No author ever "waste" a character; Jacen may have had to die. Just like his brother, his death has brought events that would otherwise be unfathomable or very long off. Fel wouldn't be leading the Imperials; Allana wouldn't being training as a Jedi; Luke and Ben wouldn't be on a course to lead the Jedi Order.

Jacen's death will not be his last time within the EU, I would bet.
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 PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 10:12 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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That would be interesting to see but theorize with me for a moment...

How would they do that and still keep it imaginative and creative enough to enjoy.
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 PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 5:12 am Reply with quote  
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  MasterAndrew15
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Good question. Of course, the immediate thing is a Force Ghost of Jacen. According to Jaina, he was "Jacen" again before he died so one can assume he died as a Jedi, not a Sith. Perhaps he could guide Allana while she was alone or something. I don't know; I'm not the author though Very Happy

I have a feeling, however, that they wouldn't allow Jacen's death to be his last thing.
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 PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 9:25 am Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Kinda like with Anakin? You know, cause they won't let him die either. JK, but yeah, I think he'll return. I don't know if it'll be as a Force ghost though, because I really don't believe that bit about him being Jacen before he died. I think its just something that Jaina wanted to believe. I mean, he was trying to save Tenel Ka and Allana, and wasn't that what he was doing the whole time anyway? Even when he went on his power trip he still kept his fovus on acheiving peace for them to enjoy. I think that if they're gonna kill him (which I wasn't exactly excited about) then they need to let him stay dead. Anakin has been messed up a little bit because they just don't want to let him go even though its been way more than a decade since he died. Not quite sure why, but meh.
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 PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 1:22 pm Reply with quote  
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  Rouge77
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I really hate this novel and I am deeply angry about the wasting of yet another character. And for what? For nothing. Everything that happened in the end could have happened without Jacen's death, not that much of what happened made much sense.

I don't think there's any chance we are ever get to see Jacen's Force Ghost, or that Anakin Solo's. It's just wishful thinking. Jacen is dead and he isn't going to come back in any form whatsoever.


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 PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 2:24 pm Reply with quote  
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  MasterAndrew15
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First off, basing your opioin on a book because of the death of a character is foolhardy. Many people disliked the death of Anakin Solo. However, it not increased the plot line by giving Han to grieve and such, it showed him for he truly was: a hero. Same thing with Mara Jade; it showed that Ben was truly a Skywalker.

At this point, the death if Jacen is what made the SW Galaxy what it is: Fel the Imperial Leader, Allana a Jedi Student, Ben a Jedi Knight; his actions, his death, made this.

I understand that he was an amazing character; I thought so. But in real life, death happens; events happen. If we pretend that he was invincible (yes, it was a pun) we are kidding ourselves. In literature, deaths are just as common and forceful as in real life. Every action has a reaction.
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 PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 3:21 pm Reply with quote  
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  Rouge77
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The problem is that like Anakin's death and it's supposed consequences, all those things would have happened anyway. Throw Jacen in a cell next to Raynar Thul, and you don't have to change anything from Invincible's ending. All those things could have still happened in exactly the same manner.

Like Anakin's death, Jacen's is just one more death which doesn't achieve anything else than the loss of a character and less options for future stories. Especially as DR doesn't want it to have consequences, like Sue Rostoni said in her post in TOS forums. They don't want to handle the fallout from Jacen's death, it effect on characters, so MF will be 2-3 years after Invincible.


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 PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 3:25 pm Reply with quote  
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  MasterAndrew15
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Not true necessarily. They might happen but not in the same way. All things in history may have happened, eventually, but not in the same way, with the same people, etc. Every action has a reaction and every action has a different reaction.

I know that Jacen's death was meant for the plot to move to Legacy; Troy knew how it was going to end long before we even thought about it. Just because a character dies doesn't mean the book is bad and it certainly does not mean the author is bad; in fact, I often find it just the opposite. MF is set 2 years after Invincible to give time for the galaxy to recover and us to learn about it. Not everything needs to be spoon fed to us. I can think about things. They want us to see the impact it had on people.

I'm not liking his death but you have to accept it; it WON'T CHANGE.
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 PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 3:34 pm Reply with quote  
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  Rouge77
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I'm sure it doesn't change. It never changes for the major good characters. Only for the villains. And occasionally minor good characters. I just hope that all those people who so graciously accept the deaths of others favourite characters will be as gracious as their own favourite characters will die. Although there are many characters who will probably never die on-screen. The Big Three won't die for a very long time, Boba Fett will be unlikely to die ever etc.

But Jacen's death didn't have anything to do with Legacy comic as far as I see it. His death or survival wouldn't have either have any influence on the part of Legacy we have seen so far. Troy Denning just wanted to write a story about the fall and death of the character and DR&LFL agreed. I don't think it has anything to do with Legacy. Sometimes things we think must have connections may not have any. I think this is one of those cases.


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 PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 4:07 pm Reply with quote  
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  MasterAndrew15
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I just told you how it did; because he messed up the Imperials by having them involved and his death had it so Fel had to become the leader. Ben would not be so smart, so strong and able without his GAG experience (at least at his early age) to possibility bring about a Kol and Cade Skywalker. I think you're just sad because a favorite character of yours died and I can't blame you. However, everything in literature is done for a reason, like it or not.
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 PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 4:12 pm Reply with quote  
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  Rouge77
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Reason? Yes. But for a good reason? I would consider that to be an extremely optimistic view at the moment.... Wink


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 PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 4:40 pm Reply with quote  
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I never said it was a good reason Wink But, really-- they won't waste Jacen, trust me. If they do, you can bash me for it. Very Happy
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 PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 12:45 am Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Not gonna lie, SOS, I may take you up on that Smile jk, but yeah, I do think that they'll have to scramble for a devent recovery from that decision and no, we can't change it, but it still may have been ill-advised.
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 PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:25 pm Reply with quote  
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  expandeduniverse
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Finally got the chance to read Invincible on the road last week. There are certainly some elements of the story that I didn't like, but on the whole, I found it to be quite good.

An early reaction after reading it was the lack of development of the war, other characters*, etc. But then I realized that Invincible is about Jaina and Jacen / Darth Caedus. Therefore, everything else is secondary to the story. This leaves us with a VERY open Expanded Universe, which is certainly a good thing. Very Happy

Still, I felt that as a climax to a long series, it was too short. Even with having to focus on the two primary characters, it felt rushed to me.

*

EDIT: And as far as the meaning of the tile [Invincible], I think this has more to do with the Legacy of Jacen / Darth Caedus. He's making history, which makes him invincible. Troy likes his symbolism.

EDIT 2: I hated the references to BSG and James Bond; stuff like that really takes me out of the book. I was afraid Denning was reverting to his Dark Nest days. <shudder>
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 PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:23 pm Reply with quote  
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  Iron Fist
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I also just finished the book. I don't have a ton of time but I figured I'd post some quick impressions.

I kept hearing how everyone was hating this book and I was determined not to let that color my determination. Yet as I read the first 50-100 pages, I could only think "I think they're right..."

It almsot felt as if I missed a book. We were thrown into the middle of a random battle (Roche) with no introduction. Why were Fett and Jaina even there? Why is Roche being attacked?

Soon after, we are introduced to Luke, who suddenly has a whole new prespective on battle and a whole new strategy. We hear everyone's disdain for Niathal and Daala (at odds with how Revelation ended). And to top it all off, that entire section is written from Jaina's perspective. It just didn't seem to sit well with me.

That ended during the battle above Roche when we were finally introduced to Han's perspective and from that poinit on, the book picked up for me. I thought the story was great and the twists were good as well. I still wish we knew a little more about what was going on in the background (Moff nanovirus, etc) but overall, I still thought it was good. There were a couple parts that I thought deserved a little more time (Tahiri's reversal) but I thought the book ended well.


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