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Mara Jade Skywalker
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 PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:26 am Reply with quote  
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  Nedara
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But it isn't just Mara. Can you believe Leia did nothing at all about Jacen? Not even go to speak with him seriosly before her false concern in Fury?


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 PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:32 am Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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Oh I agree. It was handled terribly. But then just about everything in LOTF was off. IMO, the only really good thing about LOTF was Ben and his growth. But that came at too high a sacrifice (no pun intended) for the reader and the EU.

If it was me, I'd make LOTF an infinity, and start over from DNT.
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 PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:37 am Reply with quote  
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  Nedara
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I think it could still be fixed. A few short stories -like Leia trying to save Jacen, for example-, here and there, and things would make much more sense.

And if they have to make Infinities a serie, please, please, let's be Dark Nest. Big bad bugs and Tenel Ka being pregnant for a whole year... I have no words.


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 PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:44 am Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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Oh the year long pregnancy. Razz I understand why it was done, but seriously no woman in her right mind is going to voluntarily go through a year long pregnancy.

The flip side was Etain's Force-quick pregnancy in whichever RC book it was in. Just as bad.

Writers, stop messing with pregnancy! There's a reason it's 9 months.
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 PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:51 am Reply with quote  
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  Nedara
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It's just because a big part of them are male, I suppose.

Anyway, if this would be possible, why isn't a common thing among the Jedi female? Just look how really bad was Mara's pregnancy, just trying to protect Ben. Particularly the last months. She could have saved a few worries and pain.


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 PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:19 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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Cerrinea wrote:
Oh I agree. It was handled terribly. But then just about everything in LOTF was off. IMO, the only really good thing about LOTF was Ben and his growth. But that came at too high a sacrifice (no pun intended) for the reader and the EU.

If it was me, I'd make LOTF an infinity, and start over from DNT.


Dark Nest feels like a prologue to LOTF, so if I was eliminating LOTF from continuity, Dark Nest would have to go as well. Jacen is mischaracterized in that in a way that's conducive toward making him dark, and it was so obvious at the time that everyone and their mother knew that LOTF was going to be about Jacen turning dark.


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 PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:31 pm Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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Actually, I think they could make a good story out of turning Jacen around after DNT. Although he shouldn't have had to be turned around after NJO.
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 PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:34 pm Reply with quote  
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At the end of The Unifying Force, Jacen went on his journey to gain greater understanding of the Force, and I expected him to come back as a knight-errant like Qui-Gon. Instead he came back as the exact opposite, a guy that went and studied with all these people to gain kewl powers that he uses to do as he pleases.

That never really stood well for me. When Ben flow-walked in Omen to see him, he was also mischaracterized as a bleeding heart to the Aing-Tii, talking about how he needs to heal the galaxy and crap. Even though at the end of TUF he said he doesn't have any sort of expectation of changing the galaxy or anything at all, except himself. Total one-eighty.


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 PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:49 pm Reply with quote  
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  Werehunter
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Cerrinea wrote:
Oh I agree. It was handled terribly. But then just about everything in LOTF was off. IMO, the only really good thing about LOTF was Ben and his growth. But that came at too high a sacrifice (no pun intended) for the reader and the EU.

If it was me, I'd make LOTF an infinity, and start over from DNT.


Actually Ben's story was the one I hated the most. Some parts of it was ok but others just had be slamming my head against the wall. Things like Ben following Jacen to Centerpoint, ok because they've shown that is things Jedi Apprentices do. But things like Ben joining GAG in an official capacity, hell no. I don't feel like going into detail at the moment, but that was totally mishandled.

There really isn't much from LOTF that I think was done right. Maybe Wedge and his family and Tenel Ka role in first supporting and then opposing Jacen. But the rest really was done extremely badly. They made more of it work within the story itself, but not in the large context of the Star Wars Universe.


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 PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:51 pm Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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Werehunter wrote:
Cerrinea wrote:
Oh I agree. It was handled terribly. But then just about everything in LOTF was off. IMO, the only really good thing about LOTF was Ben and his growth. But that came at too high a sacrifice (no pun intended) for the reader and the EU.

If it was me, I'd make LOTF an infinity, and start over from DNT.


Actually Ben's story was the one I hated the most. Some parts of it was ok but others just had be slamming my head against the wall. Things like Ben following Jacen to Centerpoint, ok because they've shown that is things Jedi Apprentices do. But things like Ben joining GAG in an official capacity, hell no. I don't feel like going into detail at the moment, but that was totally mishandled.

There really isn't much from LOTF that I think was done right. Maybe Wedge and his family and Tenel Ka role in first supporting and then opposing Jacen. But the rest really was done extremely badly. They made more of it work within the story itself, but not in the large context of the Star Wars Universe.


Oh well I agree with you completely on all of this. I still think Ben's growth was done really well though. For me he's the only redeeming feature out of LOTF.
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 PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:45 pm Reply with quote  
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Just realized this when I was re-reading The NJO novel Rebel Stand.

Mara going after Jacen did fit with her characterization in this book when it came to someone hurting Ben. The traitor Senator Viqi Shesh, who kidnapped Ben, almost caused Mara to do the same. The sole reason she didn't was because Luke kept turning her focus to something that was more important. But Mara really wanted to kill her, not capture but kill. Using that as a reference, it's feasible for her to have gone for the kill with Jacen. Especially since he did a lot more then just try to kidnap Ben.


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 PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:17 am Reply with quote  
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Nedara wrote:
It's just because a big part of them are male, I suppose.

Anyway, if this would be possible, why isn't a common thing among the Jedi female? Just look how really bad was Mara's pregnancy, just trying to protect Ben. Particularly the last months. She could have saved a few worries and pain.


At a guess, I'd say that speeding it up would have detracted from her attempts to save lil' Ben from the disease, and that's why she didn't attempt it.
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 PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:24 am Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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Werehunter wrote:
Just realized this when I was re-reading The NJO novel Rebel Stand.

Mara going after Jacen did fit with her characterization in this book when it came to someone hurting Ben. The traitor Senator Viqi Shesh, who kidnapped Ben, almost caused Mara to do the same. The sole reason she didn't was because Luke kept turning her focus to something that was more important. But Mara really wanted to kill her, not capture but kill. Using that as a reference, it's feasible for her to have gone for the kill with Jacen. Especially since he did a lot more then just try to kidnap Ben.


My issue isn't with Mara going after Jacen. It's with her being turned back into the Emperor's Hand. I'm fine with Jedi going after Sith or Dark Jedi. In fact I think the whole argument about him not being Sith yet is a bunch of nonsense. As far as I'm concerned they should have put the clamps on Jacen when he tried to kill his own parents. At least Luke manned up and took Ben away from Jacen at that point.

Also I think you're oversimplifying the whole Viqi Shesh situation. If you remember at the end there when Viki committed suicide, Mara and the rest were trying to save her. Of course, Viqi probably would have been tried and executed for treason.
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 PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:12 pm Reply with quote  
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I didn't say Mara did go after and try to kill her, just that's what she wanted to do. Luke was there to keep her on the right path, so to speak. So I don't think it's too far a stretch to say her choosing to go after Jacen with the intent to kill was still in character, despite how long it had been since she was the Emperor's Hand.

And I'm not sure they had her turn back into the Emperor's Hand. I know people, myself included, say that, but I mainly mean it in a way that she used the tools and skills she learned as the Emperor's Hand, rather then she turned dark or anything like that. It's not like she completely gave up being a Jedi. But rather that she used her skills as a spy and assassin to track and try to kill him. Honestly, in some ways I'm glad they showed those skills. Even as a Jedi, many of the tricks she learned as the Emperor's Hand would be extremely useful in hunting down pirates, assassins, bounty hunters and the like. Much like Corran Horn should still use the skills he learned in CorSec.


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 PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:18 pm Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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Mara pretty clearly states in Abyss that it's the state of mind she was in when she tried to kill Jacen that's causing her remorse and suffering -- turning back into the Emperor's Hand.

Like I said, I have no problem with her going after Jacen to kill him. She had in effect offered him redemption before she made the decision to kill him. That's Jedi; turning into the Hand isn't, and that's my problem with yet another LOTF mischaracterization of a main character.

To be fair, Denning started the mis-characterizations in DNT and LOTF just continued it but made it more extreme imo.
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