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I think I figured out something about Darth Maul...
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 PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:23 pm Reply with quote  
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  Queen Padmè Skywalker
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*groan*
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 PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:48 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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On the commentary track for Return of the Jedi he mentioned he considered adding that, IIRC.


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 PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:37 am Reply with quote  
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  Life Is The Path
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wookie_inked wrote:
Greedo shot first!



And I'll be surprised, VERY surprised, if Maul continues to be cut in half on the Blu Ray or at least the 3-D release. I'm certain ILM will change the scene so he falls in one piece because I get the feeling that George always wish he'd left Maul's death more open-ended, less final. That's probably why Oppress and no-longer-dead Maul were dreamed up for Clone Wars because Mr. Lucas wanted to give Palpatine's first apprentice more time to shine the way he did throughout the duels in TPM.


Technically, it was Katie Lucas who introduced that storyline, nor George.
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 PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:40 am Reply with quote  
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  Lord Ree'dius
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Different situation. In one instance something is added in the other a scene would be changed.
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 PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:18 am Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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This is really sloppy on Lucas's part.

I don't see why he couldn't have just told the EU writers "hands off" (assuming the placeholder theory is true).
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 PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:46 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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Life Is The Path wrote:
Technically, it was Katie Lucas who introduced that storyline, nor George.


Lucas came up with the idea to use Maul in the TV show, and Filoni suggested creating Opress since Maul is dead.

Reepicheep wrote:
This is really sloppy on Lucas's part.

I don't see why he couldn't have just told the EU writers "hands off" (assuming the placeholder theory is true).


I don't think Lucas ever intended to reuse Maul and replace his death in a re-release over ten years later because he had no idea he was going to do a TV show for Star Wars back in 1998.

Has the Lucas bashing gotten to the point that we're criticizing him for stuff he hasn't done?


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 PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:38 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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^ Good point. I forgot that this was just speculation. Smile
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 PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:20 am Reply with quote  
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  Lord Ree'dius
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Crash Override wrote:
Has the Lucas bashing gotten to the point that we're criticizing him for stuff he hasn't done?


Only if he would really keep on changing scenes in the movies indefinetly Wink
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 PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:48 am Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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How is it going to sound...

"Maul was bisected!"
"Han shot first!"

Yeah, I think that might work.


But damn, this scares me, for it is by far the most credible explanation I have heard for Maul's survival. Right up GL alley to boot. Insidious as Sidious.

Not just going back and changing something to fit the "vision", but blatantly doing so to serve the needs of TCW, and presumaby, the LucasEmpire bank account. A new low and a dangerous precedent. I hope this hypothesis is wrong.
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 PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:56 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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I know, it would be awful like when he blatantly changed The Empire Strikes Back to insert Ian McDiarmid to serve the needs of Return of the Jedi and the prequels.


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 PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:27 pm Reply with quote  
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  Queen Padmè Skywalker
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Crash Override wrote:
I know, it would be awful like when he blatantly changed The Empire Strikes Back to insert Ian McDiarmid to serve the needs of Return of the Jedi and the prequels.


You found that awful? I thought it was a perfectly logical thing to change.
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 PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:29 pm Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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Quote:
I know, it would be awful like when he blatantly changed The Empire Strikes Back to insert Ian McDiarmid to serve the needs of Return of the Jedi and the prequels.

Well, yeah. Don't be blinded by the fact that Ian has become the Palp we all know and love after the fact. Changing appearance of that character between one film and the next should be kinda a no-no if avoidable.

And the criticism is still the same: retroactively changing the superior product in favour of an unnecessary change in the later inferior ones. Not that I think TPM is of inherently superior quality to TCW, mind, only that my continuity-geared mind can't help but hold the movies higher because of their higher canon level.
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 PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:36 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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There's a huge difference between Palpatine in ESB and this (if it happens).

ESB made sense because it fit continuity nicely but didn't change anything plot-wise. It was an improvement all around. In the case of TPM, however, the change causes a fairly major character to live who fans have rightly assumed was dead for twelve years. That's a huge change! Very unprofessional.
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 PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:03 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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That ending doesn't change Maul's death or survival. It was originally intended to be inserted if the death used resulted in a PG-13 ending, but it wasn't necessary. It still leaked out in some 35mm prints.

If that was the ending used in 1999 (because the bisection resulted in a PG-13 rating), people would still think Maul died, and he would still be dead for the past twelve years (unless the EU resurrected him).

If Lucas made that change on the 2004 DVD release, people would still think Maul died, and that Lucas was just toning down the violence.

That ending does nothing to change Maul's death. TCW changed Maul's death. So I don't see how the change would be any different than putting Ian McDiarmid into The Empire Strikes Back, or dubbing Temuera Morrison for Boba Fett. It's just making The Phantom Menace more consistent with a later story.

So the question is whether it's acceptable to alter a film to better fit the story at all? Or if it's pointless for fans to pick and choose which alterations we like and dislike, whether it's Ian McDiarmid in Empire, Temuera Morrison in Empire, Hayden Christensen in Jedi, or, potentially, Darth Maul's more survivable "death" in Phantom Menace?

I don't doubt that many of the people that are fine with Ian McDiarmid in Empire are also opposed to Hayden Christensen in Jedi, for instance. I'm definitely not a fan of replacing Jason Wingreen with Temuera Morrison. But unfortunately, the final arbiter on the changes is George Lucas, not any particular fan, nor are we going to find cuts of the films that satisfy all fans -- except, potentially, their original theatrical cuts. But that takes us back to whether it's acceptable to alter the films for continuity purposes.


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 PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:38 pm Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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Queen Padmè Skywalker wrote:
Crash Override wrote:
I know, it would be awful like when he blatantly changed The Empire Strikes Back to insert Ian McDiarmid to serve the needs of Return of the Jedi and the prequels.


You found that awful? I thought it was a perfectly logical thing to change.


It was. Crash was being ironical here. Or what is better known as sarcasm. Wink
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