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 PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:54 pm Reply with quote  
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  Lord Ree'dius
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True. I should have said all or part of... Smile
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 PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:56 am Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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What I'd like to see is DNT and LOTF turned into Infinity stories and a start over from the end of NJO. And this time they could get it right. Like not have Jacen turn into the lamest Sith lord ever. Very Happy
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 PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:18 am Reply with quote  
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  Lord Ree'dius
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So they could turn him into the coolest Sith Lord ever this time? Twisted Evil Laughing
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 PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:10 am Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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Yeah...no. LOL

I'm not sure what I'd do if I were in charge of a reboot but I can tell you one thing that wouldn't happen -- no bug-hugging. Very Happy
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 PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:44 pm Reply with quote  
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  Queen Padmè Skywalker
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Aw, you weren't feeling the bug love nest? Wink
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 PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:44 pm Reply with quote  
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  Lord Ree'dius
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Is it bad to admit I quite enjoyed Dark Nest... Embarassed
I do admit that when I read how Jaina and company had become Joiners I did think to myself; "How could they have been so stupid not to notice the change in themselves being Jedi and all", but mostly I enjoyed the story.

*Takes another sip of black membrosia*
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 PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:58 pm Reply with quote  
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  Werehunter
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I enjoyed Dark Nest as well. There were parts of it I questioned but overall enjoyed it.

As for the how could they not notice the change in themselves question, I put it on the subtle influences as one becomes a Joiner. Considering they never had someone willing break away from being a Joiner without great outside influences, I say the bugs had powerful control over their joiners.


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 PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:07 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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Dark Nest suffers as the follow-up to The Unifying Force. That it pretty much ignored a lot of the hooks that Luceno put in it or handwaved them away (e.g., Luke's infirmity due to the venom of the Scepter of Power, Luke's declaration that the Jedi wouldn't be galaxy police, the purpose behind Jacen's sojourn and his characterization) didn't help itself in that regard.

I found some of what it did interesting. I thought JINO was an interesting character, but it shouldn't have been JINO, it should have been a new or different character that would actually fit the personality. Obviously that's problematic if you want Darth Caedus to be a Skywalker descendant, but I don't understand the need there. If repeating mistakes is important, why not use Kyp? He was originally intended by KJA to be more powerful than Luke, so he has at least a sense of pedigree, and he's already had a brush with the Sith. What JINO was already fits his personality as depicted in the New Jedi Order.

Plus it solves the problem of all these secondary characters sitting on their hands when they're equally capable as the Skywalker-Solos. Where has Kyp been? And it's believable that Luke would hold Kyp in a similar position of trust and consider him as a peer as he does JINO. It just makes sense, because it allows the story decision that Legacy of the Force took to remain in place, while respecting the New Jedi Order series and its characterizations and remaining consistent with them. And it would solve, or at least alleviate, one of the two big problems the post-NJO has had.


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 PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:20 pm Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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Queen Padmè Skywalker wrote:
Aw, you weren't feeling the bug love nest? Wink


Did anyone? Wink

Actually, I did like DNT. I just didn't like the direction things went out of DNT. Also they could have cut down on the arm-rubbing, bug-eyed non-eyeblinking, and finishing each other's sentences. Just a little creepy.

Besides the fact that it was the start of Mara-Luke as worst parents ever. Won't even go into worst Jedi aunt and uncle.
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 PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:33 am Reply with quote  
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  Taral-DLOS
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The direction everything has taken lately doesn't bother me. I figure it's their story, and I enjoy it enough to keep buying. That's as positive a review as I can give.

I'm sure someone else has said this already, but my concern is that if you would reboot the series, not much would change. Fans' favourite parts of the EU would still be preserved, so you'd still get Thrawn, you'd still get a revived Fett, etc.

Furthermore, you're limited in what you can reboot. Either you'd have to reboot the ENTIRE saga (films included), or reboot just the post-ROTJ EU. I'd be concerned that it would be difficult to reboot the prequel-era EU, since those stories still have to build to the Rise of the Empire and its subsequent Fall. And, let's be honest, the prequel era has just as many controversial (read: deeply hated by some, though not me) plotlines.

And I think Star Wars is something that would be difficult to reboot anyways. It's not like a typical comic series. I've been reading the Ultimate Marvel comics lately (Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate X-Men, Ultimate Fantastic Four, and The Ultimates mostly) and I can see the appeal of rebooting like that. The origin stories of many of these characters were told as early as the 1930s and 1940s. They have half a century of continuity behind them, yet the characters have aged maybe 10 years. It makes for good storytelling to re-tell their origins and start with blank slates in modern times (where Peter Parker is not a freelance photographer, but a webmaster). That would be incredibly difficult to replicate in Star Wars; the entire prequel trilogy is Vader's "origin story", and updating for modern times is moot when it all happens "a long time ago in a Galaxy far, far away". Star Trek did it right; you changed the origin story of the main characters (Kirk's loss of his father, growing up a "genius-level repeat offender," Spock's loss of his home and mother, etc.) and it was, in a way, modernized (in that the way the ship and the planets look more closely resembles a modern view of the future, instead of a 1960s look at the future).

All that rambling to say, I believe that a reboot of any kind is a) unwarranted, and b) difficult, if not impossible, to implement properly.
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 PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:52 pm Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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You wouldn't have to reboot the movies. You could reboot from ROTJ onward. As for a reboot being impossible, well, it's already been successfully accomplished with the Star Trek movie. I favor this kind of reboot because it does not wipe out anything from the other reality. It just establishes a different reality. Having been an original Star Trek fan from the beginning, I love the reboot that was done. It's completely revitalized the original story and main characters, and it hasn't done anything for my love of the old series. The same thing could happen for Star Wars.
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 PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:03 pm Reply with quote  
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  Taral-DLOS
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Cerrinea wrote:
You wouldn't have to reboot the movies. You could reboot from ROTJ onward. As for a reboot being impossible, well, it's already been successfully accomplished with the Star Trek movie. I favor this kind of reboot because it does not wipe out anything from the other reality. It just establishes a different reality. Having been an original Star Trek fan from the beginning, I love the reboot that was done. It's completely revitalized the original story and main characters, and it hasn't done anything for my love of the old series. The same thing could happen for Star Wars.


I also liked what they did with Star Trek, and agree that it hasn't changed my attitude towards the original either.

But the new Star Trek did one important thing which would need to be done in any post-ROTJ reboot: it changed things with a bang, in a major and immediate way. The Narada destroyed the Kelvin, affecting Kirk's life incredibly, and 25 years later it destroyed Vulcan, a bang if there ever was one. These major changes mean that there's no possible way that this new continuity/alternate reality can emulate the old one in a significant way. Sure you can revisit old ideas, and have the occasional character come back, but the Galaxy (and the characters) have changed in such a major and profound way that the same plotlines can't be simply re-done.

Therefore, I submit that only an extreme and drastic change, almost immediately post-ROTJ, could result in a decent alternate EU that doesn't emulate the original.

This change would ideally need to be done within a few weeks of the end of ROTJ (either just before or just after The Truce at Bakura).

By "extreme and drastic change", I mean something like:

-the death of one of Han Solo (Jacen/Jaina/Anakin never born, Leia marries Isolder and so never becomes Chief of State, etc.)

-the destruction of Coruscant (Empire crippled far earlier, NR wins much more easily, strong NR successfully fights back Yuuzhan Vong).

-the entire Empire rallying around one Warlord (Zsinj, or Isard, perhaps) very early post-Endor (Empire defeating the NR, leading to another Rebel movement much later on)

And then it's important to take into account the few parts of the EU that would still happen, regardless of the changed event. I'm thinking specifically of the Yuuzhan Vong. They would still show up, since they're almost exclusively extragalactic until Vector Prime. Surely Nom Anor and the other spies would warn the Vong fleets about a stronger Empire or New Republic, or maybe the Empire under Isard would have found those spies long ago, but that doesn't change the fact that the GFFA is the Vong's Promised Land. No reboot would change their arrival, only how they're dealt with.

Can I just say: I really like the Infinities comic miniseries. How they took each film, changed one detail that was beyond anyone's control, and you saw how things continued from there. My three ideas above can be applied in much the same way:
-Random mechanical failure causes Millennium Falcon to stall while in battle at Bakura; Han Solo dies as a result.
-Wife and children of a Maw Installation employee are killed by random happenstance (I'm thinking botched robbery); employee goes crazy, steals Sun Crusher, blows up Coruscant.
-Extremely prominent Imperial Officer is able to escape Endor (whereas normally he would be killed). He has fame (like Soontir Fel or Maarek Stele), charm, and can rally a crowd. He throws his support behind someone like Isard or Zsinj, and urges the entire Empire to do the same. Isard (or Zsinj) is named Empress (or Emperor).
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 PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:38 pm Reply with quote  
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  Werehunter
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That I could almost get behind. A major change like those that would prevent the re-telling of similar stories. The way many seem to talk about a possible reboot, leave me think that they want the same characters to act the same way in different circumstances or even the same circumstances but with different outcomes. One person suggested retelling the Thrawn Trilogy but with Thrawn surviving at the end. While would be a big change for stories taking place after that, those three books would have to be almost the same for it to work.


I'd even add another big change to Taral's list.

Mara kills Luke Skywalker shortly after Endor, leaving no Jedi. And instead of the Jedi Order being rebuilt, we have a lot of little Force groups popping up as people teach themselves how to use it.


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 PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:44 pm Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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Cerrinea wrote:
You wouldn't have to reboot the movies. You could reboot from ROTJ onward. As for a reboot being impossible, well, it's already been successfully accomplished with the Star Trek movie. I favor this kind of reboot because it does not wipe out anything from the other reality. It just establishes a different reality. Having been an original Star Trek fan from the beginning, I love the reboot that was done. It's completely revitalized the original story and main characters, and it hasn't done anything for my love of the old series. The same thing could happen for Star Wars.


The thing that works for Trek in this but not so with Wars is time travel. The new Trek is not exactly a "Reboot" but a continuation of what came before, through timetravel, and if it's a trilogy, then it is a story not yet finished. They are treating it like SW so you can bet it'll be a trilogy. And by keeping Spock Alpha and the Romulans they leave the original timeline in tact, but created an alternate timeline, one that will most likely in true Trek fashion be fixed in one of the sequels. Or even later if they decide to play in this new timeline for a while first. But either way the door to "correct the timeline" is there. Alpha Spock is alive- with full knowledge of the true timeline and everyone he's ever melded with- and he melded with new Kirk so Kirk now knows what's wrong and has all those memories too, and the Romulans from the future- well new Spock melded with one of them so they now have the memories of the Romulans from the future so they know where the Romulans will come in as well. Everything is in place for a movie to "fix" the "reboot"

Alas SW doesn't deal much in alt. dimensions, and very little with timetravel- and even that it's ALL been forward IIRC. Never backwards in time beyond Flowwalking and they quickly made sure that you couldn't do anything with that in that regards.

So the only way I see it working is by making one an alt universe of the other. Or the George Lucas Signature series and the EU.
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 PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 6:45 pm Reply with quote  
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  Taral-DLOS
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lol could you imagine several separate series?

Amazing Star Wars
Spectacular Star Wars
Ultimate Star Wars
Uncanny Star Wars
Astonishing Star Wars
Incredible Star Wars

Star Wars: Noir
Star Wars: 2099
Star Wars: 1602

I could go on.
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