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Thrawn
 PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:23 pm Reply with quote  
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  Jaina Solo Fel
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I was quite surprised that he didn't have a thread yet. So here it is. Let us all discuss my favorite character in the Star Wars universe! Very Happy

I loved Thrawn when he first appeared in Heir to the Empire, but my favorite portrayal of him was probably Outbound Flight. I always just loved his tactical genius. And I also loved how his death was not because he made some stupid, idiotic mistake. Although Thrawn was a genius, he was not all-knowing. I think that's part of the reason that I love him so much.

So, what do you think? Do you like Thrawn? Dislike him? Why or why not? Post your opinions, but remember: I know where you post. Twisted Evil
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 PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:01 pm Reply with quote  
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  darthrevan1
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Thrawn was a genius. He studied a cultures art to discover weaknesses. He was a tactical genius. I was disappointed he wasnt the real deal in The Hand Of Thrawn duology. But he died, he couldnt come back even though he tried to clone himself.
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 PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:04 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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I think Thrawn's death is because he made a mistake. Or rather after the original Thrawn trilogy his characterization was whitewashed so that his ruthlessness and villainy in the original trilogy seems like a mistake.

It makes no sense to me that Thrawn in all his later published books is portrayed as some enlightened Imperial that sees the need for the Empire but wants to do away with the injustices and prejudices against nonhumans, including in Choices of One where he's recruiting nonhuman stormtroopers (who volunteer), yet in Dark Force Rising he's a complete and utter jerk to the Noghri.

Just think, if he reversed the Emperor's policy of poisoning Honoghr and didn't treat the Noghri like crap, then Leia would have nothing to convince them to change sides and he wouldn't have been killed by Rukh.


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 PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:07 pm Reply with quote  
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  darthrevan1
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If I remember correctly his last words are "But it was so artistically done"

Or something like that.

I love your avatar pic Crash Override. Loved that Super ESB game.
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Re: Thrawn
 PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:24 pm Reply with quote  
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  Queen Padmè Skywalker
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Jaina Solo Fel wrote:
I was quite surprised that he didn't have a thread yet. So here it is. Let us all discuss my favorite character in the Star Wars universe! Very Happy

I loved Thrawn when he first appeared in Heir to the Empire, but my favorite portrayal of him was probably Outbound Flight. I always just loved his tactical genius. And I also loved how his death was not because he made some stupid, idiotic mistake. Although Thrawn was a genius, he was not all-knowing. I think that's part of the reason that I love him so much.

So, what do you think? Do you like Thrawn? Dislike him? Why or why not? Post your opinions, but remember: I know where you post. Twisted Evil


On the Cantina less than a week and already making threats against us? My my. Wink

Thrawn was a great villain. One of the best in the EU, no doubt.
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 PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:45 pm Reply with quote  
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  Jaina Solo Fel
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Crash Override wrote:
I think Thrawn's death is because he made a mistake. Or rather after the original Thrawn trilogy his characterization was whitewashed so that his ruthlessness and villainy in the original trilogy seems like a mistake.

It makes no sense to me that Thrawn in all his later published books is portrayed as some enlightened Imperial that sees the need for the Empire but wants to do away with the injustices and prejudices against nonhumans, including in Choices of One where he's recruiting nonhuman stormtroopers (who volunteer), yet in Dark Force Rising he's a complete and utter jerk to the Noghri.

Just think, if he reversed the Emperor's policy of poisoning Honoghr and didn't treat the Noghri like crap, then Leia would have nothing to convince them to change sides and he wouldn't have been killed by Rukh.


Yes, I agree, what I meant was it wasn't the type of idiotic mistake the Emperor made. My plan is foolproof, they'll never get to the... (And yes, I realize that's not how the Emperor died, but it is the reason the Death Star II was destroyed, and had Palpatine not already been dead, he would have died then)

As far as Thrawn's change of character, I agree with you there as well, it's probably the reason I like Outbound Flight Thrawn better than Thrawn in the Zahn trilogy. The depictions of Thrawn written later don't make him seem as evil. As far as the alien species tolerance, however, Thrawn always tried to act for the best interests of the Empire. It was not in the Empire's best interests to refuse to allow aliens into the military simply because of their species, so he saw no problem with recruiting aliens. Due to the Empire's policy, any aliens that he recruited would be extremely grateful for a chance to prove themselves (not all aliens hated the Empire, after all), and initially would probably be more loyal to an alien commander. Thrawn was not Vader. Vader was the one who began the policy with the Noghri, Thrawn saw a working system and left it as-is. The Noghri were highly skilled and possessed a fanatical devotion to the Empire.

Thrawn's fatal mistake was not being able to foresee an assassin sniffing Leia. Every other miscalculation regarding the Noghri happened because of his ignorance of their loyalty to Leia. Thrawn had the highest respect for the Noghri, but he treated them according to whatever response he needed to obtain. They were so devoted to the Empire, an angry commander would have been great motivation, had they not switched loyalties. Remember the tractor beam guy? Thrawn acted in whatever way would get the best results.

And again, not even Thrawn could possibly have imagined that one of his highly trained assassins would accidentally get a sniff of Leia, associate the smell with Vader, bring her to Honoghr, and change the allegiance of the entire race. That is why I found his death to be handled so well. He wasn't an idiot, he just wasn't omniscient. It really drives home the plausibility of the character.
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 PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:06 pm Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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I may be alone here, but I've always wanted a Thrawn clone to come forward at some point. Cliche I know but SW is based on Cliches!
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 PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:57 pm Reply with quote  
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  Jaina Solo Fel
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Now, see, for me, I always thought it logical for someone as obsessed with cloning as Thrawn to clone himself. However, I would never want to see a Thrawn clone come forward. There is only one Thrawn. That's why I really liked how Zahn handled it in the Hand of Thrawn duology. There was a clone, they just killed it before it was fully grown.
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~Allana Solo and C-3PO

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 PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:05 pm Reply with quote  
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  FateotJediFreak
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Jaina Solo Fel wrote:
Now, see, for me, I always thought it logical for someone as obsessed with cloning as Thrawn to clone himself. However, I would never want to see a Thrawn clone come forward. There is only one Thrawn. That's why I really liked how Zahn handled it in the Hand of Thrawn duology. There was a clone, they just killed it before it was fully grown.


Completely agree. Cloning Thrawn would be a disgrace to his memory in my opinion.
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 PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:41 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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illogicalRogue2 wrote:
I may be alone here, but I've always wanted a Thrawn clone to come forward at some point. Cliche I know but SW is based on Cliches!


I thought Zahn laid the seed for that with Formbi in Survivor's Quest, especially when he depicted Formbi as being completely different in Outbound Flight. Similar to how he had Borsk Fey'lya desperate to destroy Tantiss in The Last Command as a seed to the Hand of Thrawn duology.

I don't think Thrawn's mistake was his assassin smelling Leia. Even when the Noghri knew that Leia was Lady Vader they still weren't going to betray the Empire for her. It was only when she revealed to them that the Empire was poisoning Honoghr that they switched sides. They were going to turn her over to Thrawn before that.


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 PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:53 pm Reply with quote  
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  Jaina Solo Fel
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Crash Override wrote:
I don't think Thrawn's mistake was his assassin smelling Leia. Even when the Noghri knew that Leia was Lady Vader they still weren't going to betray the Empire for her. It was only when she revealed to them that the Empire was poisoning Honoghr that they switched sides. They were going to turn her over to Thrawn before that.


True, I had forgotten about that. But I think my point still stands. Leia was still the catalyst for the whole thing.
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 PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:23 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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The problem I have is that Thrawn gained control of the Noghri back around the Battle of Yavin, so that's nearly ten years under his control. The Noghri are loyal to the Empire because they're ostensibly healing Honoghr. By the time Thrawn gained control, we don't know if Honoghr was too far gone to heal or not, but if it wasn't then if Thrawn made a legitimate attempt to do so it would have taken years with the Noghri still in his service, and if it wasn't possible he could have taken steps to relocate them. It's win-win, and Leia has nothing to turn the Noghri with. And it's completely expedient on Thrawn's behalf.

As it stands, Thrawn's treatment of the Noghri strikes me as being evil for evil's sake.


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 PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:55 pm Reply with quote  
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  Jaina Solo Fel
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You have a point, but he's my favorite character. I will not go down so easily. Wink

Following your scenario, let's say Honoghr was already too far gone to save. The costs for relocating the Noghri to a different world would be astronomical, not to mention that the search for a suitable world would probably bring the Noghri galactic attention, which would add unneeded complications to their role as covert assassins. So, to Thrawn's mind (though probably not his vocabulary), don't fix what ain't broken.
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“Actually, I don’t quite recall. But I was made, so the existence of my maker is beyond question. And since I consider my existence to be a good thing, he was without a doubt benevolent and forward thinking.”
~Allana Solo and C-3PO

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 PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:35 am Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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Well, that's assuming that the planet is ruined. And even if it is, if he simply removed the droids that were poisoning it and replaced them with droids that legitimately tried to restore the flora, it would be a while before the lack of results is noted -- the Noghri didn't even notice the opposite when the Empire was poisoning the planet.

It seems like Thrawn does still demonstrate the Imperial chauvinism. The Noghri aren't Thrawn's equal so he's content to keep Palpatine's one-sided arrangement in place rather than do anything for their welfare.

The way Thrawn and Pellaeon treat the Noghri, not just to them but their general attitude toward them, is really callous and ruthless. Pellaeon wants to have Rukh killed just because Rukh annoys him by sneaking up on him. Thrawn makes the Noghri grovel at his feet.

And it's not just the Noghri. There's a stark contrast to the way that Denning wrote Thrawn in Tatooine Ghost where he's incognito as a stormtrooper commander re-educating his troops, and the way he's actually depicted in Heir to the Empire. In the former, a stormtrooper threatens someone that they're questioning, so Thrawn smashes his rifle stock over the stormtrooper's head and asks him if he feels like helping Thrawn now.

Yet in Heir to the Empire, Thrawn is on Wayland seeking the guardian of Mount Tantiss, and when someone fires an arrow at Thrawn, he has the building the perpetrator was in leveled, then demands to be taken to the guardian. It definitely seems like Thrawn is a lot less diplomatic with those he deems inferior, whether it be low-tech humans on Wayland or Noghri.

Going back to IR2's desire to see a clone of Thrawn, I wouldn't be surprised to see the ruthless Thrawn in the trilogy to be explained as a ruthless clone, although I think that Crisis of Faith sort of goes against that.


Last edited by Crash Override on Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:38 pm; edited 1 time in total


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 PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:36 am Reply with quote  
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  DannikJerriko
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I want to know more about Thrawn, I've just started Outbound Flight but I haven't read any other Thrawn books/comics. Have I started reading at the wrong place? Suggestions?
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