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 PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:43 am Reply with quote  
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  Queen Padmè Skywalker
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Which brings up an interesting question: how many Star Wars characters have there really been who were truly humble? Most Sith turn dark either because of lust for power or arrogance and arrogance is what brought down the Old Order.
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 PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:55 am Reply with quote  
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  Life Is The Path
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I'd put forward Obi Wan for definite, with Luke, Yoda and Mace on the fence. Is it humble if you know how powerful you are, yet don't brag?
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 PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:27 pm Reply with quote  
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  DannikJerriko
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There is no way Luke is humble after ANH. Mace was pretty humble, I don't really like him, but he was humble. I believe at one point Yoda said "Strong in the Force, I am..." Not him.

Can't really think of any. Maybe Chewie?
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 PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:35 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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DannikJerriko wrote:
There is no way Luke is humble after ANH. Mace was pretty humble, I don't really like him, but he was humble. I believe at one point Yoda said "Strong in the Force, I am..." Not him.

There's nothing proud about Yoda saying he's strong in the Force. He's just stating the truth. If Yoda dwells on his power and, especially, how he is so much more powerful than others, he is being proud. True humility is simply ceasing to think of yourself.

I would say the Jedi as a rule are humble because they "only think about others".
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 PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:39 pm Reply with quote  
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  FateotJediFreak
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DannikJerriko wrote:
There is no way Luke is humble after ANH. Mace was pretty humble, I don't really like him, but he was humble. I believe at one point Yoda said "Strong in the Force, I am..." Not him.

Can't really think of any. Maybe Chewie?


I think by the fact that Yoda was able to live for hundreds of years with the power that he had and not succomb to it that he was if not humble, atleast extremely disciplined and wise. He knew how powerful he was but he knew that even he could be corrupted by the darkside if he gave in.
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 PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:59 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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The reason Jacen turned is because his driving force from the NJO was to find the "middle path" or essentially compromise between the Yuuzhan Vong and the SW galaxy rather than viewing the conflict in terms of victory or defeat. He was viewing things objectively.

In LOTF (and Dark Nest) he began to view things subjectively and so he sought expedience over compromise.

I don't know it still bothers me.


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 PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:43 pm Reply with quote  
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  Queen Padmè Skywalker
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FateotJediFreak wrote:
DannikJerriko wrote:
There is no way Luke is humble after ANH. Mace was pretty humble, I don't really like him, but he was humble. I believe at one point Yoda said "Strong in the Force, I am..." Not him.

Can't really think of any. Maybe Chewie?


I think by the fact that Yoda was able to live for hundreds of years with the power that he had and not succumb to it that he was if not humble, atleast extremely disciplined and wise. He knew how powerful he was but he knew that even he could be corrupted by the darkside if he gave in.


See, I see Yoda and Mace (prequel era) as very arrogant along with the rest of the Council. I believe Yoda even admitted (perhaps in the RotS novel?) that his arrogance played a part in the Order's fall. Now, OT era Yoda, I think had struck that balance between knowing what he was capable of, but not being prideful about it.

Interesting to see how this problem has extended to Jedi in the EU, from Luke to Kyp to Jacen, etc.
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 PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:01 pm Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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darthrevan1 wrote:
The Sith believe there way is the only way.


The difference with the Jedi and Sith is the orginization- the Jedi treat training like a School, where the Sith each Master / Apprentice brings a different POV to the grand plan. I find that in this regard you can have two Sith at odds with Philosophy and yet both are correct.
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 PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:40 pm Reply with quote  
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  grayJeedai08
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Like Sidious and Plagueous. Correct?


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 PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:23 am Reply with quote  
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  darthrevan1
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The Jedi are arrogant. In most eras there is a council who sit around thinking they have the answer and look down on those that dont agree with them. Theres no humility there and that includes Yoda, mace windu and anyone who served on it.

The Sith are the same. They are arrogant too with their dark council.

Luke was arrogant too. The only one that comes close to showing humility despite having a great power/strength is Chewbacca. I dont know if he can be counted though
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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:07 am Reply with quote  
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  The Platt
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I know I'm just jumping in the middle of the conversation here, but I thought I might try to bring a different perspective to the arguments being discussed.

I have to disagree with the thought that either the Jedi or the Sith are arrogant as a whole. Having a Council isn't a sign of arrogance, but rather, the opposite. It's a system of democracy designed to keep any individual from from gaining too much power while still allowing decisions to be made for the greater whole. Likewise, the traditional Sith hierarchy of the Rule of Two performs in a similar fashion: the apprentice learns from the master, but the master knows that at some point, the apprentice will attempt to usurp his title. Saying that either ideology is arrogant as a whole is simply wrong. Now certainly individuals of each group have been arrogant; Jorous C'baoth and Emperor Palpatine come to mind. I think it has to be looked at on an individual basis.

As far as Jacen Solo goes...I'm supremely disappointed with the LotF series because Jacen was my favorite character. I didn't really have a problem with him becoming a Sith because I admired his reasonings for the conversion, but his progression definitely did give way to arrogance, and in his arrogance, he became, well, stupid.


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 PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:17 am Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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Definition of Humble:
1. not proud or arrogant; modest: to be humble although successful.
2. having a feeling of insignificance, inferiority, subservience, etc.: In the presence of so many world-famous writers I felt very humble.
3. low in rank, importance, status, quality, etc.; lowly: of humble origin; a humble home.
4. courteously respectful: In my humble opinion you are wrong.
5. low in height, level, etc.; small in size: a humble member of the galaxy.

By point 5, Yoda is humble Laughing

I'd say Raynar is pretty humble for a Jedi, as is Jaden Korr. Ganner is a great example of a Jedi who was not humble. Kyp would be another one. Both of them were pretty arrogant during the NJO. Using them as a template, the Jedi Masters like Yoda and Mace were certainly much more humble.

Yet to say Sith can't be humble...yeah, I don't think Sith can be humble. That goes against their code. Pride and arrogance are useful tools for Sith, so I can't see them tossing that away. By going down that path, Jacen opened himself up to arrogance.
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 PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:14 pm Reply with quote  
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  grayJeedai08
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yeah, bet he isn't arrogant now. He's dead.


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 PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:34 pm Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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grayJeedai08 wrote:
yeah, bet he isn't arrogant now. He's dead.


Have you read FOTJ? he's still arrogant.


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 PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:51 pm Reply with quote  
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  Mara Jade Skywalker
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Dog-Poop_Walker wrote:
Have you read FOTJ? he's still arrogant.


Hahaha! Laughing
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