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Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:27 am
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Aush Administrator Joined: 12 Nov 2007 Posts: 980 Location: Midwest, USA Son Of Skywalker wrote: Quote: Do you bring that child into an already cruel world without the mom looking like that? How many thousands of amazing couples want to take care and raise a child but can't because they can't have one. How many would like to adopt? There's no reason that baby couldn't be kept alive, and everyone is made for something. And how many couples are out there waiting to adopt? If there were so "many thousands of amazing couples want[ing] to take care and raise a child," then I wonder how many children are waiting to be adopted. Usually, the ones who say that people must adopt aren't willing to do it themselves; if they believe they can tell others to give the baby to adoption, they should be willing to demonstrate and take the baby. Maybe we need to do some research on how many couples are seeking adoption, how many children are up for adoption, and just how difficult of a process it is...I heard some adopt from other countries because it's easier, is it? EDIT: Here's a link from ChildWelfare.gov site that has links to the answers I asked...in case you're wondering. Oh, and to answer the question "How many would like to adopt?"...1.3 percent of the total of ever-married women, or 487,000 women, had ever completed an adoption...I wonder about men wanting/completing adoptions? _________________ "Changes are nice--but so is continuity!" "Then you saved my life. How disgusting. How unfortunate." "No, don't gush on so. It was nothing, really."

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:15 am
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MasterAndrew15 Administrator Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 940 Location: United States Well, I never said it was easy. Both candidates, as I, believe adopting should be made easier. A lot easier. There's no reason why that child can't live; the choice was made by the mother and father, not the child, and they don't deserve death. Because, like you and I, they are guaranteed certain unalienable rights, 2 centimeters long or six feet tall. Quote: 1.3 percent of the total of ever-married women, or 487,000 women, had ever completed an adoption...I wonder about men wanting/completing adoptions? From my experience, men like the thrill of adopting and are more open to it, but I have no stats to show that. I seriously consider adopting in the future, as one of my best friends was adopted and his parents gave him a loving home and it's something that was great to see. _________________ EUCantina.net Founder. Forum Admin. New to the forums? Introduce yourself in the Spaceport! Need help? Please feel free to post in Feedback & Suggestions

Candidate stands from forum

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:25 am
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Aush Administrator Joined: 12 Nov 2007 Posts: 980 Location: Midwest, USA From the forum that I have talked about in another thread, McCain said overthrow Roe v Wade because a living baby exists at conception; Obama said he believes in Roe v Wade and would rather deal with the issues causing abortions then just overthrow Roe v Wade. _________________ "Changes are nice--but so is continuity!" "Then you saved my life. How disgusting. How unfortunate." "No, don't gush on so. It was nothing, really."

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:34 am
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MasterAndrew15 Administrator Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 940 Location: United States I actually believe that both should be done; Roe vs. Wade should be done away with, but I also think their should be steps taken to help with the real cause of teenage pregnancy and people who aren't ready and, honestly, that parents and caring. It's not something a government system will fix; it's something that society needs to fix by itself. Television shows, magazines; all influences on kids and parents that are alike. Censorship isn't the way either, but being better parents, living with a higher standard of morals will. How do you do that? By living with them and teaching by example. _________________ EUCantina.net Founder. Forum Admin. New to the forums? Introduce yourself in the Spaceport! Need help? Please feel free to post in Feedback & Suggestions

Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:09 am
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Darth Skuldren Moderator Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 5756 Location: Missouri Obama's history on the abortion issue is rather nasty. He was the only one to vote against a bill preventing hospitals from simply letting babies who survived a partial birth abortion to starve to death. That's definitely something I wouldn't want on my record. He's a little to extreme with his pro-abortion stance. _________________

Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:32 am
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Aush Administrator Joined: 12 Nov 2007 Posts: 980 Location: Midwest, USA Darth Skuldren wrote: Obama's history on the abortion issue is rather nasty. He was the only one to vote against a bill preventing hospitals from simply letting babies who survived a partial birth abortion to starve to death. That's definitely something I wouldn't want on my record. He's a little to extreme with his pro-abortion stance. I agree with you: I wouldn't want that on my record. With that said, do you have a source for this? Was there something else to the bill? What bill was it? I've become much more interested in where these things come from than just "I've heard that...". If I'm wrong, I'm more than happy to change my opinion if there's an argument behind it. I guess I'll just have to look for it myself like before (oh well ) EDIT: Well, I found this blog article that gives me the name of the bill you mentioned in 2002 and he wasn't the only one to vote against it (although it seems there's more going on than what's presented in this article). And, indeed, there was something "attached" to the bill that Democrats (and I agree with them on this one reason to vote against it) didn't like. Be sure to check it out; even if it's against Obama, at least it gives me more information. Also (two last things), I think everyone should be slightly offended by the picture with this article. It's similar to a video some years back implying that Bush was just as bad as Hitler. No matter how much I disagree with Bush, I do believe he loves his country and wants to protect it and everyone in it, and thought that video crossed the line. If you were offended by that video, you should be offended by this image, too, but I'll let you decide. And second, abortion isn't the top issue in this campaign. It's the economy, the wars, the spending, and the schools that are much more important. Let's put some serious work into the living before the yet-to live. I'm not saying this should be ignored, but should come slightly later. _________________ "Changes are nice--but so is continuity!" "Then you saved my life. How disgusting. How unfortunate." "No, don't gush on so. It was nothing, really."

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:22 pm
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Autobon Master Joined: 17 Apr 2008 Posts: 751 Location: Seattle, Washington Abortion is wrong, period. The fact is, abortion is not "pro-choice." It is far from it. Abortion clinics dont have ultra sound machines so the mother can see the baby for herself, they dont educated the mother on other choices such as adoption, programs to help with raising the child, etc. No, its just kill kill kill. In fact abortion doctors can even get suid for malpractice! So if something goes wrong, they go free! Talk about a sick practice. And there is never any check ups on how the women is doing after an abortion. Abortion is not choice, its taking away a womens right. Of course, people will always make excuses to do it. Of course there is the popular "what if the woman is raped scenerio." Well, the fact of that matter, is that less than 2% of abortions are because of rape. Less the 2%! Yet people want to go around and throw that out as why abortion should be legal. According to studies, about 75% of rape victims choose to keep their babies. Why? Because the baby did nothing wrong. It will love the mom, regardless. And its a human being. Women want to prove they are better than those who commit rape. So why dont we go after people who commit rape? We hardly ever do, and they hardly get punished. Instead we make the mother and child the problem. Abortion is selfish. Most abortions are "lifestyle" abortions. The baby will impede on the womens life, she wont be able to do the things she used to, etc. The baby makes her uncomfortable for 5 or 4 months, and she cant have that. So she gets an abortion. Its absolutely disgusting, the fact that you would murder someone just because it makes you uncomfortable for a little bit. Dont tell me about if a baby is going to be born with defects or whatever, we are humans, and it is our duty to protect those people. You want to know who kill the young and defected? Animals. And its sad to see people go down to that level.

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:33 pm
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comanderbly Master Joined: 29 Feb 2008 Posts: 745 Location: Denver Quote: Dont tell me about if a baby is going to be born with defects or whatever, we are humans, and it is our duty to protect those people. You want to know who kill the young and defected? Animals. And its sad to see people go down to that level. Ever hear of Tasax? As a soon to be father there is a lot of information out there and people should be allowed to decide for themselves what is best for their family. Its okay to say you do not support the right to choose - because that is the real issue, but to condemn people for contributing to something they believe is pretty mean.

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:37 pm
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MasterAndrew15 Administrator Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 940 Location: United States Quote: because that is the real issue, but to condemn people for contributing to something they believe is pretty mean. If their belief is death. That's what it is-- bottom line. There's no "pro-choice," unless you're talking about the choice of engaging in sexual activity or not. Abortion isn't a thing of religious beliefs-- it's of human morals that all humans, regardless of who they worship, should realize is wrong as it's murder. Teenagers, and even adults, need to be made aware that even if they do make a mistake, the mistake isn't the child. There are plenty of ways that the child can live peacefully here on Earth. _________________ EUCantina.net Founder. Forum Admin. New to the forums? Introduce yourself in the Spaceport! Need help? Please feel free to post in Feedback & Suggestions

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:53 pm
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comanderbly Master Joined: 29 Feb 2008 Posts: 745 Location: Denver Quote: If their belief is death. That's what it is-- bottom line. There's no "pro-choice," unless you're talking about the choice of engaging in sexual activity or not. Abortion isn't a thing of religious beliefs-- it's of human morals that all humans, regardless of who they worship, should realize is wrong as it's murder. Yeah I will never see it that way. I hope no one thinks I am trying to do anything but voice my opinion on the subject. Calling it murder is over the top since its legal - its your opinion, so I still do not feel its fair to condemn people as murderers. On that note I probably won't have much more to say on the subject. I am not looking to start a fight - I do respect everyone's beliefs and feeling even when they conflict with mine.

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:54 pm
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Mara Jade Skywalker Master Joined: 15 Feb 2008 Posts: 5359 Location: Beyond Shadows I heard someone say (and I won't mention who said it, because I'm not hear to bash the speaker), "If my daughters ever made a 'mistake', I wouldn't want them to be punished with a baby." Now I'm not sure if that is word for word, but I do know that the speaker said 'punished with a baby'. Punished?! Since when is a baby a punishment? A baby should be a blessing! "Pro-choice" is a ridiculous term, because the only thing you're choosing that's different from those who are "pro-Life" is 'death'. And just to point out, "pro-life" is also a choice. So both are "pro-choice', technically. I just can't get over the fact that abortion is murder, but it is never called that by those who support it. Somehow they excuse it away as something else. How can killing a human being purposely ever be anything but murder? If someone would answer that, I would be grateful. Because I honestly don't understand why they believe it isn't murder. That just boggles my mind. _________________ "It's not about the legacy you leave, it's about the life you live." ~Mara Jade Skywalker

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:31 pm
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Autobon Master Joined: 17 Apr 2008 Posts: 751 Location: Seattle, Washington comanderbly wrote: Calling it murder is over the top since its legal Oh its legal? Thats must change it....... except for that in some countries its legal to put people in jail and beat them when they speak out against their government. That must be ok then.... its legal and all.... Quote: I do respect everyone's beliefs and feeling even when they conflict with mine Thats great. I respect others beliefs too, but only when they dont directly harm another person life. Someone could think green is the best color, and even though i like blue better, i would be fine with that. But when someone thinks its ok to terminate another life, its not a matter of respect anymore. Its criminal, and its wrong and needs to stop.

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:53 pm
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MasterAndrew15 Administrator Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 940 Location: United States Quote: Calling it murder is over the top since its legal - its your opinion, so I still do not feel its fair to condemn people as murderers. Legality is just based on the thoughts of a lawmaker, just as history is just based on the thoughts of a historian. Just because it's legal does not make it just; it's why we have The Supreme Court in many cases. Murder is defined as the killing of another human being, is not? There are degrees, even. That's what killing a living, breathing baby is. _________________ EUCantina.net Founder. Forum Admin. New to the forums? Introduce yourself in the Spaceport! Need help? Please feel free to post in Feedback & Suggestions

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:39 pm
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Old Master Ben Administrator Joined: 10 Nov 2007 Posts: 2254 Location: Georgia I agree with SOS.

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:53 pm
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Mara Jade Skywalker Master Joined: 15 Feb 2008 Posts: 5359 Location: Beyond Shadows Exactly. A baby, despite whether it's breathing oxygen or not, is a human being. And to kill it is outright murder. Purposely done and planned out, not to mention! But it's okay, eh? That's somewhat like killing a puppy because, "Hey, it isn't a dog yet." I realize a puppy is running around and breathing, but I'm just making a point. _________________ "It's not about the legacy you leave, it's about the life you live." ~Mara Jade Skywalker

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