Always in motion the future is...or isn't it?

I didn't see a thread specifically on this idea, but it's been discussed in part in a bunch of them.

The question is: How does our (the viewers) knowledge of the future (both in and out of Universe) effect the story?

I don't recall ever reading a SW story where I didn't know more about what was happening then the characters in it. This is arguably necessary for third-person POV, and bound to happen in an Adventure story like Star Wars.

In an Adventure story the protagonist has a mission to complete and will face difficulty, but must ultimately succeed. It's necessary because if they failed the story would be over. When we start watching A New Hope we know that Luke Skywalker is going to become a Jedi Knight and defeat the Empire. This future knowledge requires us to suspend disbelief that any peril he suffers will actually pose a threat to defeating him. This is OK because its what we expect from an Adventure. The point is not the outcome, but how it effects the character.

Star Wars can be problematic because it's not just about a protagonist, but the story of the Universe itself that has an established history. When we know the future of events outside of a character it can become a forgone conclusion. For me when it comes to the Old Republic I can't suspend that disbelief because in the face of future certainty it makes me feel like any character effects are insignificant. By that I mean the knowledge that the Jedi will be wiped out and the Empire established means that anything the Jedi did, any battle's they fought, will be pointless. I also feel like the Legacy comics series has created this same cap on the post ROTJ EU stories.

The PT dealt with this better by contrasting a certain future with an uncertain past. We don't know how Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader, and so we can go back to character identity in the story. In the EU I think it was best handled in "flash-back" stories like Millennium Falcon and Death Star. We know what happened, but the character's don't so they in a sense act out the scenario that we have created for them with our future knowledge.

I don't think people really like those stories because while they resolve the problem on one level, they preserve it in the same way of eliminating character identity. Since the characters are forced by fate to achieve it's end, they have no control over their destinies.

This conflict has been addressed In Universe briefly in some of the EU stories. Characters ask the epistemological question, "Do I control my destiny or is the will of the Force (fate)?" But it's usually dismissed and they go back to the Adventure. We are told that the future is ever-changing and always in motion, but much of the story deals with characters fulfilling their fate.

I'd like to see more stories where this dilemma is actually significant to the story. I have some other ideas too, but I'll save them for later since this is running a bit long.

Master Joined: 09 Jun 2009 Posts: 1410

Master Joined: 09 Jun 2009 Posts: 1410

Lots of different angles brought up, but I'm going to tackle the forgone conclusion aspect. Reading Star Wars, you always know the good guys are going to win, right? Well the Darth Bane trilogy threw that one for a loop because it stars the bad guys. The question there wasn't so much if the bad guys were going to win, but how the heck was this series going to turn out? By the third book, the question was who was Bane's apprentice going to be? I thought that series did a very good job of keeping the reader guessing on what was going to happen.

Another good example of a book where forgone conclusions need not apply is Riptide. If you don't mind getting the book spoiled for you...

Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)

If you look at the NJO, several big main characters were killed off. It was unexpected and it really changed how people saw Star Wars. Suddenly the good guys weren't safe. The only forgone conclusion was that the Vong would defeated, and even that was questionable. If they kill off the good guys, what's to keep them from having the bad guys win?

So generally, yes, we know the good guys as a whole will triumph over the bad guys as a whole in each story. But the authors and comic writers generally do a good job of packing in a lot of small surprises for the reader.
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I guess it depends on what you want out of a story. I'm not much for suspense in and of itself. Like I said before, I've read many books that I love for the first time where I knew what the ending was going to be before I began page one.

I knew the ending of Paradise Lost before I started, because I was familiar with the story of Genesis. I knew Eve would take the Apple in the end. However, I enjoyed the psychology that Milton added to the scant Biblical account, the gorgeousness of his writing, among other things and it has become one of my favourite books.

I saw the Lord of the Rings movies before I read the books, but it didn't dampen my enjoyment of the books at all. And this goes for numerous other adaptations as well.

I've heard complaints against the Narnia books for being too predictable (i.e. the good guys always win) and it always surprises me. When I'm reading the books, I'm not on the edge of my seat and turning pages rapidly, I'm sitting back and basking in this lovely, simple-yet-complex world. Of course, the security of 'the good guys always win' is shattered in The Last Battle.

I've even seen an introduction to a book totally give away the ending. My first thought was, 'Oh nice! Drop that spoiler, why don't you?'. The author of the introduction said that he didn't feel bad giving away the ending, because the book wasn't about suspense. And he was right. I ended up quite enjoying it.

I also nearly always enjoy re-reads more than reads. Spoilers are over-rated.
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Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.

Back in the day (circa 2007 maybe?) I used to only buy Star Wars novels in paperback, and so I would wait the year between hardcover and paperback release. But I didn't want to avoid spoilers for a full year. So in some cases I sought them out specifically.

I don't find the spoiler issue to be much of a problem, since the adventure isn't in the ending, it's how you get there. Like watching an old episode of Star Trek, where it looks like Kirk can't possibly get off the planet in time. But of course he does; there are 40 episodes that take place after this, not to mention the 7 films he's in. The fun is in the HOW.

I specifically searched on Wookieepedia for the name of the person Jacen Solo killed in sacrifice, and for his Sith name. Knowing these took nothing away, because the lead-up to their duel, and the duel itself, were really cool.

But that's just my opinion.
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It was the year of rebirth… the year of great sadness… the year of pain… and the year of joy.
It was a new age. It was the end of history. It was the year everything changed.
The year is 2261.
The place: Babylon 5.

I love to re-read novels too. I enjoy most just as much a second time and there were even some that I liked better the second time around Smile

(and of course some that where bad the first time and got worse the second Wink

)
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Still much to learn, you have. Surrender, you should."

"You're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."

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