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The Old Republic: Revan by Drew Karpyshyn Discussion
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 PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:42 am Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gO8J56K3s7c

Here's a spoiler laden video of the Jedi Knight class storyline which deals with Lord Scourge and the Emperor. And we learn the Emperor's motives... which I think is interesting because it's essentially Palpatine's long term goal in Dark Empire.


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 PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:31 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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So just got all but 30 pages done with Revan. Good lord is that disappointing. Ugh...
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 PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:41 am Reply with quote  
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  Dancelittleewok
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Caedus_16 wrote:
So just got all but 30 pages done with Revan. Good lord is that disappointing. Ugh...


What disappointed you, Caedus?
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 PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:22 am Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Dancelittleewok wrote:
Caedus_16 wrote:
So just got all but 30 pages done with Revan. Good lord is that disappointing. Ugh...


What disappointed you, Caedus?


The book was never going to succeed to begin with. Its shorter than it should be, it focuses more on Lord Scourge than on the title character, and with the characterization its going to disappoint a lot of people because they played the game differently than it came out in the novel. Your Revan might have been totally different, so on that level there's no way to satisfy. Also, one of my biggest problems with it overall is that it assumes you've played the games and that you'll play the new one. I think Star Wars literature shouldn't have to rely on the games so heavily. One of the biggest detractors for LotF was that it continuously referenced the Legacy comics, leaving people who didn't read them thinking "what the hell is this?" Another problem similar we've seen is the prequel trilogy, which assumes you'll watch all of Lucas's supplemental material on the Clone Wars to understand things like Anakin's scar or the references to Cato Nemoidia. With this its the same, there's no background given on Revan and his companions are mentioned but explained away. Similarly, the Jedi Exile is handled very much the same and its going to require trips to wookiepedia.com for people to understand what happened.I think that a book should be good of its own accord and not at all dependent on anything but the film saga and possibly references to other books. I don't mind when stories lean on each other, but this one leans too much on material that many may not experience.

Also the ending was frustrating. It felt super rushed to me and I get that it was supposed to lead in to TOR but that doesn't help anyone who isn't going to spend the money on the game right now. It also appears rushed, wastes a character, and negates all the hard work another did while building up a newer character who's actions indeed continue into TOR but again, that would be an expensive way to find out the end of a story. All-in-all it was the weakest of TOR novels to me and I just didn't think it would be, I thought it would be the best due to the nature of the character and how important he is to so many people. I actually enjoyed his characterization of Revan in the novel, but others didn't. I thought the Exile deserved more and to be honest this should have been a duology. I know Karpyshyn blames all the issues on a set deadline that could not be changed so I hope there was an awesome novel that just didn't get time to get fleshed out properly, but this still frustrates me. Malgus is a cool character, his book got time. Revan is one of the most respected characters in SW, why waste him like this?
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 PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:43 am Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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Quote:
Also, one of my biggest problems with it overall is that it assumes you've played the games and that you'll play the new one. I think Star Wars literature shouldn't have to rely on the games so heavily.


See, I don't agree with this at all. I didn't play the games, I'm not going to play the games and I enjoy Revan a lot. I didn't feel lost as to what had happened previously. I'm certainly looking forward to Drew Karpyshyn's next TOR book, and that's the first time I can say that about.

I do think the problem with the KotoR players is that they've played Revan and couldn't set aside their Revan from the now canon Revan, and enjoy the story.
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 PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:37 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Cerrinea wrote:
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Also, one of my biggest problems with it overall is that it assumes you've played the games and that you'll play the new one. I think Star Wars literature shouldn't have to rely on the games so heavily.


See, I don't agree with this at all. I didn't play the games, I'm not going to play the games and I enjoy Revan a lot. I didn't feel lost as to what had happened previously. I'm certainly looking forward to Drew Karpyshyn's next TOR book, and that's the first time I can say that about.

I do think the problem with the KotoR players is that they've played Revan and couldn't set aside their Revan from the now canon Revan, and enjoy the story.


See I enjoyed Revan in the story, I just think that the book relied too much as a tie-in. The other two stood on their own, this one relied on knowledge from before. You have to go look up what happened to know anything about Malak or the war or the Exile's quest or any of that.
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 PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:27 pm Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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I was lucky. The Revan in the book was very similar to the Revan that I played as in the game. Cool

I just wish we could have seen more of Revan's thoughts. I would have liked it if Drew got in his head and showed the reader a bit more of what Revan was like.
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 PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:33 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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All I know is I was stoked that the TOR timeline videos gave Revan a mullet because I did when I played KOTOR.



Yeah!


Last edited by Crash Override on Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:17 pm; edited 2 times in total


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 PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:35 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Crash Override wrote:
All I know is I was stoken that the TOR timeline videos gave Revan a mullet because I did when I played KOTOR.


That is the best explanation for someone liking Revan's appearance in TOR that I've ever heard.
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 PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:11 pm Reply with quote  
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  Arawn_Fenn
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 PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:18 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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@Crash: That post was better with the picture! That actually does look similar
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 PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:52 am Reply with quote  
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Caedus_16 wrote:


The book was never going to succeed to begin with. Its shorter than it should be, it focuses more on Lord Scourge than on the title character, and with the characterization its going to disappoint a lot of people because they played the game differently than it came out in the novel.


See, I couldn't disagree more. Yes, the book was short, but it was concise and I feel the length of the book accurately fit the story inside. I don't feel that anything was particularly rushed, and I also don't think that anything else should have been added to it to make it meatier, because I feel it would have ultimately detracted from the story. I liked Lord Scourge. I feel his inclusion added a lot of detail - again, without being to fleshy - on the Sith Empire, and the workings of their civilisation, and given the ending I feel the amount of page time was necessary to explain his actions. He had so much page time because he had the greater character arc.

Quote:
Your Revan might have been totally different, so on that level there's no way to satisfy. Also, one of my biggest problems with it overall is that it assumes you've played the games and that you'll play the new one. I think Star Wars literature shouldn't have to rely on the games so heavily.


But that was always going to be a problem. Millions played the game, so of course a lot of people will be upset that the Revan of the book is different to their Revan. I fail to see how this is the fault of the book, or the author. He had to give Revan a distinct characterisation. And I don't think it assumes that the readers have played the games. It gives a brief summary as to the events, much like other books (like in the NJO series) do so that new readers have some backstory, but not enough to bog down the story they're currently reading. I don't think it relied on the games too heavily - I think it was a tie in book to games.

Quote:
One of the biggest detractors for LotF was that it continuously referenced the Legacy comics, leaving people who didn't read them thinking "what the hell is this?" Another problem similar we've seen is the prequel trilogy, which assumes you'll watch all of Lucas's supplemental material on the Clone Wars to understand things like Anakin's scar or the references to Cato Nemoidia. With this its the same, there's no background given on Revan and his companions are mentioned but explained away. Similarly, the Jedi Exile is handled very much the same and its going to require trips to wookiepedia.com for people to understand what happened.I think that a book should be good of its own accord and not at all dependent on anything but the film saga and possibly references to other books. I don't mind when stories lean on each other, but this one leans too much on material that many may not experience.


I read the LOTF series before I read the Legacy comics, and I didn't have any such problem. Again, it did what Star Wars stories, going way back to the movies, have done. They include little bits from other stories, without taking the focus away from the story at hand. I like it, because it makes it feel like there's a larger galaxy out there. This happens, also, in the PT. I can't fault the inclusion of the mention of Cato Neimoidia or the scar, because the war's been going on for three years - I expect Obi Wan and Anakin to get into fights, to get scars, and to go on missions, during that period. The only time I've had a problem with this in the movies is the the backstory for the beginning of the clones in AOTC. That's because the knowledge of who ordered the clones, either Dooku or Dyas, is integral to the plot, and should have been tied up in the actual film. The examples you've brought up are either throwaway lines or are expansions to the story, but are not integral to the actual story. And, on a sidenote, wasn't the story of how Anakin got his scar told in the Republic comics, and not the CW series?

However, you are wrong to state that there was no detail given on Revan's history. There was information given on Revan's time in the war against the Mandalorians, and the events of the KOTOR game. While the transition from Revan's story to the Exile's story was jarring, and brief, it did provide the necessary information during the chat between Bastila and the Exile. Enough, I surmise, to not leave readers clueless. I also feel that this novel doesn't lean too heavily on the games. It is a tie in novel, and as such we know, from the very beginning, that it would tie in to the games, and I think that to expect otherwise is folly.

Quote:
Also the ending was frustrating. It felt super rushed to me and I get that it was supposed to lead in to TOR but that doesn't help anyone who isn't going to spend the money on the game right now. It also appears rushed, wastes a character, and negates all the hard work another did while building up a newer character who's actions indeed continue into TOR but again, that would be an expensive way to find out the end of a story. All-in-all it was the weakest of TOR novels to me and I just didn't think it would be, I thought it would be the best due to the nature of the character and how important he is to so many people. I actually enjoyed his characterization of Revan in the novel, but others didn't. I thought the Exile deserved more and to be honest this should have been a duology. I know Karpyshyn blames all the issues on a set deadline that could not be changed so I hope there was an awesome novel that just didn't get time to get fleshed out properly, but this still frustrates me. Malgus is a cool character, his book got time. Revan is one of the most respected characters in SW, why waste him like this?


Again, we knew that it wasn't going to end well, even before we read the book. He went to the unexplored regions, and was never heard from again. Because, if he was, then the Republic would know about the Sith Empire, and there'd be no game. There'd be no surprise. The Republic would have gone in and destroyed them as soon as Revan told them about the Emperor. The ending was a surprise, and a shock, but at the same time it should have been obvious from the beginning.
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 PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:57 am Reply with quote  
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  Arawn_Fenn
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 PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:23 pm Reply with quote  
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@Life:

See I agree with you one some of your points. I agree that it needed to end with Revan never coming home, but I felt it was very sudden. I felt the character of the Jedi Exile was wasted, and I felt that it was too focused on tying in than standing on its own. Maybe I was just expecting too much of it because of who it was supposed to be about, and I'll admit I like the overall idea, but I felt there should have been so much more done with it. Like I said, this was never going to succeed in the way that they hoped it would and the reason its getting such negative press is that its less that the sum of its parts. A book starring Bastila Shan, Revan, the Exile, and Canderous Ordo should have been bigger, especially since it is supposed to be the big link between the past and present in terms of canon. Like I said, it wasn't a horrible book, just kind of a let down. It relied too much on outside sources to really stand on its own to me, and though I know the sources I see that as a major detractor. I agree that all Star Wars references outside sources and tries to tie the universe together (Plagueis was one of my favorites) but this just didn't do it for me. I'm glad it did for you, just not me.
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 PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:12 pm Reply with quote  
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  Gan
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I just finished the book yesterday, and I can see understand what some of you guys are saying. The book does involve a lot of characters that have their back-stories in other games/works, but it doesn't quite require you to read them before you read the book. However, you will get so much more out of the novel if you do read some background, piecing some of Revan's relationships and plotlines together as you go.
You guys were talking about how the end seemed a little bit rushed, and that's really the one bad thing I'd say I felt about it.
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Also, for whatever reason, when I first read "Scourge" in the book, I would mispronounce it "Scrooge" in my head as I read. Scrooge is not an intimidating Sith name, so I didn't think too much him until Karpyshyn called him an expert swordsman in the final chapters. I thought it was worth a chuckle.
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