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 PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:36 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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Nope, it's been consistent.

I finished Balance Point, and I started Conquest last night because my tablet to read Recovery on was dead. I think I'll read Recovery now and then continue Conquest.


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 PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:14 am Reply with quote  
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  Life Is The Path
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I disagree. I, too, found the Han/Anakin thing to be up and down, with little consistency. In Vector Prime, Chewies death had hit him hard, yet he was coping. In the next, he was off getting drunk. Same goes for Tahiri. She'd get to a point in a book where it seemed that she had come, or be imminent to do so, to some sort of closure or acceptance - and then that book would end and the next book would start. With Tahiri in the exact same place as the beginning of the book as she was in the beginning of the previous book.
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 PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:32 am Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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Life Is The Path wrote:
I disagree. I, too, found the Han/Anakin thing to be up and down, with little consistency. In Vector Prime, Chewies death had hit him hard, yet he was coping. In the next, he was off getting drunk. Same goes for Tahiri. She'd get to a point in a book where it seemed that she had come, or be imminent to do so, to some sort of closure or acceptance - and then that book would end and the next book would start. With Tahiri in the exact same place as the beginning of the book as she was in the beginning of the previous book.


Well, having just read the first seven books, let's see...

In Vector Prime, the reality of the situation didn't fully set in and Han's mind was occupied with dealing the Yuuzhan Vong. In the Dark Tide duology, when he had time to process what happened and isn't preoccupied with dealing with an imminent threat, he ceased to be a participant in the novels apart from the very beginning when it's established that he's getting wasted in Coruscant bars. Perfectly consistent. The coda to Vector Prime even has the reality starting to hit Han once the Praetorite Vong at Helska are dealt with.

And there's no up/down, because after Dark Tide, the next duology stars Han, and he's off on his own with Roa and then Droma, and he doesn't go back to being "down" again after that. He goes through perfectly realistic stages of grief.

I'm not going to comment on Tahiri because I just finished Conquest so I haven't gotten there yet. But I think you're remembering it wrong. And I know you are with Han and Anakin. Anakin was over blaming himself for Chewbacca after he saved Mara on Dantooine.

I mean, if you want to remember it as being bad, go ahead, but it definitely isn't the way you say it is, at least with Han and Anakin, because I just read through the first seven books back to back in the past week and I've found it to be consistent.


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 PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:06 am Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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Now I haven't read NJO in awhile, but I did read it more than once. I remember Han's journey through his grief over Chewie to be well done and actually pretty realistic. There are 7 stages of grief so Han's behavior or mood changing from book to book isn't at all inconsistent with someone going through the stages*.

*Not everyone goes through all 7 stages. Some people get stuck at a particular stage and never progress all the way to acceptance.
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 PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:25 pm Reply with quote  
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  Lord Ree'dius
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Life Is The Path wrote:
I disagree. I, too, found the Han/Anakin thing to be up and down, with little consistency. In Vector Prime, Chewies death had hit him hard, yet he was coping. In the next, he was off getting drunk. Same goes for Tahiri. She'd get to a point in a book where it seemed that she had come, or be imminent to do so, to some sort of closure or acceptance - and then that book would end and the next book would start. With Tahiri in the exact same place as the beginning of the book as she was in the beginning of the previous book.


This is exactly how I experienced it for both examples. It didn't seem nor feel very consistent to me either. And it has been stated in interviews before that these instances of "mood-swings" (that the're sometimes realistic is more by accident than by design) arose because of the fact that several novels where written simultaniously and so some mistakes crept in.
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 PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:27 pm Reply with quote  
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  Werehunter
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Lord Ree'dius wrote:

And of course the whole debacle of setting Anakin up for a bright future and then killing him off and letting Jacen take his place....


In a way I was happy they killed him. Not because he was a bad character, but they were setting him up too much. They did the same with Jacen in the second half of the storyline. One of the mistakes Star Wars made was building up one character to be the be all. Words can't describe how happy I was in Fate of the Jedi where they had Anakin's ghost tell them not to count on just one person. Of course they also had Luke keep thinking that Ben will be the future of the Jedi, which cancels it out. One would think that after the old Jedi did that with Anakin Skywalker, the newer ones would be smarter about it.

That opinion, is also one of the reasons I was so disappointed in the way they killed off some many of the newer Jedi, like Ganner, during NJO. And why I'm not overly annoyed by Jacen's overall story in Legacy of the Force.


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 PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:05 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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I think everyone should be happy that Anakin Solo died, because you know if he survived and Jacen died, or if they both survived, the character with the name Anakin is becoming Darth Caedus.

I don't mind that they killed off Ganner, because if you're going to kill off a character, you do it the way Stover did it for Ganner, and make that character's death legendary. He probably has the best character death in the history of the EU, and perhaps Star Wars itself, save Anakin Skywalker's death.

I suspect that if Ganner did survive the NJO, he would be a non-factor afterward regardless. I'll take his epic death over the fate of pretty much any of the NJO survivors, to be perfectly honest. I wish Jacen died in The Unifying Force in dramatic fashion himself at this point.

Back to chronicling my re-reading of the New Jedi Order, I've almost completed Rebirth. I've definitely decided to shift my focus to science fiction other than Star Wars (I want to get angry about Alien 3 instead of LOTF), and I'm contemplating whether to complete the New Jedi Order series before doing so, or just stop before I get to Star by Star. I know that Star by Star really gets the ball rolling though with the greatness that is Allston's duology, Traitor, Destiny's Way, and The Unifying Force to follow, so it's a tough decision! It's like being at the apex of a rollercoaster and choosing to get off it (with magic)!

EDIT: I finished Rebirth. It picks up nicely in the third act, enough so to convince me to finish the series before moving onto something else, like Asimov, Stephenson, or Gibson. It does run on a bit too long, I feel like I'm halfway finished but I'm 8 books in with 11 more to go. Fortunately the last three hardcovers are all excellent.


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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:21 am Reply with quote  
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  Life Is The Path
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Crash Override wrote:
Life Is The Path wrote:
I disagree. I, too, found the Han/Anakin thing to be up and down, with little consistency. In Vector Prime, Chewies death had hit him hard, yet he was coping. In the next, he was off getting drunk. Same goes for Tahiri. She'd get to a point in a book where it seemed that she had come, or be imminent to do so, to some sort of closure or acceptance - and then that book would end and the next book would start. With Tahiri in the exact same place as the beginning of the book as she was in the beginning of the previous book.


Well, having just read the first seven books, let's see...

In Vector Prime, the reality of the situation didn't fully set in and Han's mind was occupied with dealing the Yuuzhan Vong. In the Dark Tide duology, when he had time to process what happened and isn't preoccupied with dealing with an imminent threat, he ceased to be a participant in the novels apart from the very beginning when it's established that he's getting wasted in Coruscant bars. Perfectly consistent. The coda to Vector Prime even has the reality starting to hit Han once the Praetorite Vong at Helska are dealt with.

And there's no up/down, because after Dark Tide, the next duology stars Han, and he's off on his own with Roa and then Droma, and he doesn't go back to being "down" again after that. He goes through perfectly realistic stages of grief.

I'm not going to comment on Tahiri because I just finished Conquest so I haven't gotten there yet. But I think you're remembering it wrong. And I know you are with Han and Anakin. Anakin was over blaming himself for Chewbacca after he saved Mara on Dantooine.

I mean, if you want to remember it as being bad, go ahead, but it definitely isn't the way you say it is, at least with Han and Anakin, because I just read through the first seven books back to back in the past week and I've found it to be consistent.


This isn't a case of wanting anything. I've also read the NJO series back to back, and that's the distinct impression I got from it. Although if you do bring up wanting, then maybe it is you who is wanting it to be so good, that you're looking past its flaws?

Attributing thoughts and beliefs to me is almost always a mistake, so don't.
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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:17 am Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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I find it unbecoming for people to come into a thread called "New Jedi Order Appreciation Thread" to criticize the NJO, and then for them tell me that my reading of a series of books over the past week is less accurate than theirs which was less recent.

I actually find it insulting, as though they're accusing me of lying. That really doesn't help my inclination to believe a person coming to a "NJO Appreciation Thread" in order to criticize it has ill intentions in doing so.

So please don't lecture me on attributing thoughts and beliefs to you, because you're communicating them yourself quite clearly. And if you truly are innocent of these attributions, perhaps you should rethink what you're posting and where you're posting it, and in the future do so with more care.


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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:58 am Reply with quote  
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  Life Is The Path
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Technically that wasn't a lecture. But I do feel it appropriate to point out its flaws, no matter which thread I'm in, if it's pertinent to the discussion. It was pertinent to the discussion, so I mentioned it. And I'm saying that maybe you're reading it from a biased standpoint, which would cloud your perception of it, no matter when you read it. That is possible - in my opinion, likely. Simply because you're reading it at the moment doesn't mean that your opinion is correct.

The NJO has flaws. It was good, I happen to think, but not flawless.

But, whatever. I can't be bothered to have this conversation any more.
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I am a Star Wars fan. That doesn't mean that I hate or love Jar Jar. That doesn't mean I hate or love Lucas, or agree or disagree 100% with him. That doesn't mean I prefer the PT over the OT, or vice versa. That doesn't mean I hate the EU, or even love all of it. These are not prerequisites. Being a man is not a prerequisite. Being a geek is not a prerequisite. The only prerequisite is that I love something about Star Wars. I am a Star Wars fan.


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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:16 am Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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I finished Star by Star and started Dark Journey.

Honestly, not really a fan of Star by Star.


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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:45 am Reply with quote  
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  Darth-Weeto
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crash, ive just started star by star and im liking it so far.


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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:32 pm Reply with quote  
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  Werehunter
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Star by Star is an odd one for me. The first time I read it, I loved the book. The second time however I didn't. Then the third time I remembered why I liked it the first time. Not sure exactly how that happened with me, but it happened.


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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:38 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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I realized reading Star by Star that with all of Denning's novels, he has really good parts in them, but I feel like he also has a lot of bad stuff in them too, so ultimately none of his novels stand out to me as being great.

I think Star by Star is partially victimized by its placement in the chronology of the New Jedi Order, particularly when it is read consecutively. I feel that Vector Prime, Onslaught, Ruin, Jedi Eclipse, and Hero's Trial flow pretty well, and starting with Balance Point, the flow is disrupted by two novels that are smaller in scale. The series length storyline of the Yuuzhan Vong War pauses as the Yuuzhan Vong haven't done anything since the Battle of Fondor, and after taking Duro, cease their invasion altogether under the pretense of a truce in exchange for Jedi.

What transpires in Balance Point, Conquest, and Rebirth are mostly character moments with little series plot development, apart from the first insinuations of redeeming the Yuuzhan Vong via the bottom of their caste system, the Shamed Ones.

Star by Star does have the fall of Coruscant, but I feel as though the Mission to Myrkr, as Wookieepedia calls it, really has the same lack of significance to the overall series that the prior three books do. Yes, Anakin Solo dies on it, but the Voxyn are only a threat in that single book. The overall significance of that mission in the grand scheme of the series, apart from the fact that Anakin dies on it, is really not significant, and yet a whole lot of time is spent on it.

I think way too much time is spent on it and it really feels like it drags on. I found it unbelievable in the context of the series that Anakin Solo is placed in charge of the team, with the contrivance that Ganner Rhysode is the "decoy leader," especially when the prior two books have just established that Anakin is an absolute loose cannon that, in the prior novel, absolutely drove Corran Horn nuts because he disobeyed pretty much every single thing Corran told him to do.

And yeah, I thought the characterizations in this novel were off! Especially Jacen. It seems like Denning went out of his way to make Jacen extremely obnoxious and contrarian. I found Anakin Solo was also extremely annoying and hypocritical. Denning also put a lot of sexual innuendo in this novel that stands out in contrast with the prior novels.

I think that the New Jedi Order series, as a whole, started off on the right track with the first five novels, but then the next five novels (Balance Point, Edge of Victory, Star by Star, Dark Journey) are kind of the down point in the series. I suspect that part of it has to do with the fact that originally after Balance Point, the Knightfall trilogy was planned but cancelled, and they had to improvise with the series plotline.


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 PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:04 am Reply with quote  
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  Lord Ree'dius
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Life Is The Path wrote:
Crash Override wrote:
Life Is The Path wrote:
I disagree. I, too, found the Han/Anakin thing to be up and down, with little consistency. In Vector Prime, Chewies death had hit him hard, yet he was coping. In the next, he was off getting drunk. Same goes for Tahiri. She'd get to a point in a book where it seemed that she had come, or be imminent to do so, to some sort of closure or acceptance - and then that book would end and the next book would start. With Tahiri in the exact same place as the beginning of the book as she was in the beginning of the previous book.


Well, having just read the first seven books, let's see...

In Vector Prime, the reality of the situation didn't fully set in and Han's mind was occupied with dealing the Yuuzhan Vong. In the Dark Tide duology, when he had time to process what happened and isn't preoccupied with dealing with an imminent threat, he ceased to be a participant in the novels apart from the very beginning when it's established that he's getting wasted in Coruscant bars. Perfectly consistent. The coda to Vector Prime even has the reality starting to hit Han once the Praetorite Vong at Helska are dealt with.

And there's no up/down, because after Dark Tide, the next duology stars Han, and he's off on his own with Roa and then Droma, and he doesn't go back to being "down" again after that. He goes through perfectly realistic stages of grief.

I'm not going to comment on Tahiri because I just finished Conquest so I haven't gotten there yet. But I think you're remembering it wrong. And I know you are with Han and Anakin. Anakin was over blaming himself for Chewbacca after he saved Mara on Dantooine.

I mean, if you want to remember it as being bad, go ahead, but it definitely isn't the way you say it is, at least with Han and Anakin, because I just read through the first seven books back to back in the past week and I've found it to be consistent.


This isn't a case of wanting anything. I've also read the NJO series back to back, and that's the distinct impression I got from it. Although if you do bring up wanting, then maybe it is you who is wanting it to be so good, that you're looking past its flaws?

Attributing thoughts and beliefs to me is almost always a mistake, so don't.

Very well put and you didn't deserve any of the replies you got.
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Still much to learn, you have. Surrender, you should."

"You're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."

http://www.reedius.deviantart.com/


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