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Are the Novels Canon?
 PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:25 pm Reply with quote  
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  SidiousThrawn
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I'm curious, are the novels considered canon? I'm rereading Jedi Twilight and Evan Piell is in there. The book takes place after Order 66 however, in the CW Season 3 Piell is killed. So....which is correct?
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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:32 pm Reply with quote  
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  DannikJerriko
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Well, some are and some aren't. Sometimes even bits in a novel are and others are up for debate.

But I think you can probably discuss this in our Continuity Discussion Smile
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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:11 pm Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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Here's how canon goes in descending order or canonicity.

G-canon: Movies and documentaries made for the movies. Also some statements by GL.

T-canon: recent addition because of TCW. So TCW is higher canon than books, but below G-canon.

C-canon: Books, comics, short stories and certain aspects of the video games. The facts in C-canon are canon until contradicted by higher canon -- such as your Even Piell situation.

Non-canon: Infinities and fan fiction.

So except for the last one, it's all canon.
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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:48 pm Reply with quote  
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  Taral-DLOS
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Don't forget S-canon, the level between C and Non. It represents older materials (such as Marvel Star Wars and Classic Star Wars newstrip comics). Elements of S-canon stories may be taken up by others (making them C-canon), or ignored altogether (making them non-canon).

But note that no new material is ever called S-canon. This only represents the stories written before there was ever any attempt to keep things in continuity. Elements in S-canon stories may be retconned as needed without consequence. The ultimate goal is to be transient. One day all material that was classified as S-canon will be either acknowledged by newer sources and made C-canon, or abandoned altogether and made Non-canon.

For example, the stories at the end of Marvel Star Wars featuring Lumiya were used as a background for the article Evil Never Dies: The Sith Dynasties and the Legacy of the Force novels. I honestly can't think of any S-canon elements made non-canon, but that's not to say that none exist.
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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:09 pm Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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Thanks, Taral, I knew I was forgetting something even as I entered the post. I just couldn't remember what I was forgetting.

Poor Marvel. Generally it gets so little love. lol
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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:20 pm Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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The short answer is yes. The slightly longer answer is that whatever George Lucas says is canon and everything else is left in murky territory.

As Cerrinea demonstrated the hierarchies of canon can create a conflict with each other which may necessitate the the story be changed to rectify that conflict by what is called retro-active continuity (retcon).

As of yet there has been no retcon for this story, so the canonical version of events is that Jedi Piell was seen dying in the Clone Wars and then later seen still alive in Jedi twilight after order 66- and I guess we have to use our imagination to explain why that is.


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 PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:36 am Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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I vote that Even Piell had a identical twin brother, and both of them were Jedi. Was it IR that suggested they spelled their name only slightly different? Laughing
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 PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:08 am Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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I like the identical twin brother idea. I was going to fall back on that totally overused Star-Wars-escape-from-clause, the clone. Very Happy
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 PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:34 pm Reply with quote  
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  SidiousThrawn
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Thanks guys.
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 PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:33 am Reply with quote  
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  Life Is The Path
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Darth Skuldren wrote:
I vote that Even Piell had a identical twin brother, and both of them were Jedi. Was it IR that suggested they spelled their name only slightly different? Laughing


It was Taral who submitted the theory that it was Evan Piell who died Laughing .
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 PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:43 am Reply with quote  
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  Taral-DLOS
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Life Is The Path wrote:
Darth Skuldren wrote:
I vote that Even Piell had a identical twin brother, and both of them were Jedi. Was it IR that suggested they spelled their name only slightly different? Laughing


It was Taral who submitted the theory that it was Evan Piell who died Laughing .


Was it? lol I think that's a fun idea, but I don't want to take credit if it wasn't me Smile

I love me a good retcon though! Hence my article on them on EUCantina.net a few months back.
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 PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:16 am Reply with quote  
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  Life Is The Path
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I'm pretty sure it was you, back on TOS, when you weren't Taral, as such. Unless you picked it up from someone else? Well, either way, you were the first person I saw who promoted that theory, so I presumed it was you!
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 PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:54 pm Reply with quote  
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  Baloo
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With the amount of material in the Star Wars universe now, and the canon that basically everything that isn't the Movies is a lesser level of canon, I suppose you could really just make up your own canon right now.

I personally like my personal canon of the Big 3's escapades ending at the Hand of Thrawn Duology and the prequel trilogy just never being created Wink


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 PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:57 am Reply with quote  
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  Taral-DLOS
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Baloo wrote:
With the amount of material in the Star Wars universe now, and the canon that basically everything that isn't the Movies is a lesser level of canon, I suppose you could really just make up your own canon right now.

I personally like my personal canon of the Big 3's escapades ending at the Hand of Thrawn Duology and the prequel trilogy just never being created Wink


Ok, there's one important point to clarify. It is important to distinguish between CANON and CONTINUITY.

There is only one continuity, stretching from Dawn of the Jedi 0 to Legacy: War #6, and everything in between. It encompasses all stories that are, to some extent, canon. Certain things are excluded from Continuity, like the Infinities comics and numerous Tales comics.

Canon levels are what's used to determine what is and is not in continuity, in case of conflict.

So even if there are different Canon levels, they all contribute to one overall continuity.

I personally don't like the idea of personal canon. George Lucas, and those to whom he delegates such authority, are the ones who decide what is in continuity and what is not. Personal canons just speak to personal taste. Easier to say that you don't like certain stories, and therefore decided to stop buying books at that stage.
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-Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear


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 PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:17 pm Reply with quote  
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  Baloo
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Taral-DLOS wrote:
Baloo wrote:
With the amount of material in the Star Wars universe now, and the canon that basically everything that isn't the Movies is a lesser level of canon, I suppose you could really just make up your own canon right now.

I personally like my personal canon of the Big 3's escapades ending at the Hand of Thrawn Duology and the prequel trilogy just never being created Wink


Ok, there's one important point to clarify. It is important to distinguish between CANON and CONTINUITY.

There is only one continuity, stretching from Dawn of the Jedi 0 to Legacy: War #6, and everything in between. It encompasses all stories that are, to some extent, canon. Certain things are excluded from Continuity, like the Infinities comics and numerous Tales comics.

Canon levels are what's used to determine what is and is not in continuity, in case of conflict.

So even if there are different Canon levels, they all contribute to one overall continuity.

I personally don't like the idea of personal canon. George Lucas, and those to whom he delegates such authority, are the ones who decide what is in continuity and what is not. Personal canons just speak to personal taste. Easier to say that you don't like certain stories, and therefore decided to stop buying books at that stage.


Well I was just being cheeky really, but there are two continuities, and you really don't have to follow the entire EU canon if you don't want to. After all, Lucas himself doesn't.

"I don't read that stuff. I haven't read any of the novels. I don't know anything about that world. That's a different world than my world. But I do try to keep it consistent. The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used. When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions."

So really, personally I don't see the problem with creating a personal canon. Especially when it comes to characters like Boba Fett who had much cooler backstories before the prequel trilogy rolled in.


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