Log in to check your private messages
Abortion
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 10, 11, 12
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The EUCantina Forums Forum Index » The Meditation Grove View previous topic :: View next topic  
 PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:13 am Reply with quote  
Message
  Taral-DLOS
EUC Staff
EUC Staff

Joined: 23 Nov 2010
Posts: 1621
Location: Ontario, Canada

Dog-Poop_Walker wrote:
TD, I don't understand the point of this question? The answer seems to be pretty forgone depending on your position, with really only two options to choose from, and so does not represent a real intellectual hurdle or difficult moral choice.

If you oppose abortion you would try to convince her to do otherwise. If you were unable to, supposing that the strength of your conviction doesn't entail you try to forcible stop her, then you would certainly end your relationship with this person.

If you supported abortion, or believed it is her choice alone, then you would accept it and go on as before.


That's fair. I was just hoping to challenge some of the positions of apparent-zero-tolerance toward abortion in cases when it is not your choice at all.

But I may have gone about it the wrong way.
_________________
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."
-Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear


View user's profile Send private message

 PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:54 pm Reply with quote  
Message
  Reepicheep
Master
Master

Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 6713
Location: Sailing into the unknown

I would do everything I could to stop her.
_________________

Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.


View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website

 PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:31 pm Reply with quote  
Message
  Cerrinea
Master
Master

Joined: 09 Jun 2009
Posts: 1491

I have kind of the opposite story.

When I became pregnant with one of my sons my husband tried to force me to have an abortion. He badgered me constantly to the point where it really was mentally and emotionally abusive. The thing is there was no reason for an abortion other than his selfishness. We were financially really very stable, and we weren't exactly immature kids either.

I dug my heels in and refused, eventually he stopped and became supportive (or as supportive as he's capable of being), and he truly loves this son. obviously, I've never told this son about it because that would be very cruel and I love my son too much to do that. I will just say that the marriage eventually ended in divorce.

I guess my point is that whatever you believe ultimately the choice is in the woman's hands. It's her decision. If a man doesn't want to be faced with an unplanned pregnancy then maybe he should take responsibility to ensure a pregnancy does not happen.
_________________
Roqoo Depot co-founder.


View user's profile Send private message

 PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:23 pm Reply with quote  
Message
  Mara Jade Skywalker
Administrator
Administrator

Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 5504
Location: Beyond Shadows

Cerrinea wrote:
If a man doesn't want to be faced with an unplanned pregnancy then maybe he should take responsibility to ensure a pregnancy does not happen.


See, I feel this is where Pro-Life activists (including myself) get a lot of their passion from. We feel like abortion, in many cases, is just an answer to irresponsibility. A woman got pregnant and she or the father (or both) doesn't want the responsibility of dealing with a child. Often enough, I would imagine, it does not have to do with financial instability or immaturity or health. It has to do with a simple "solution" to a "problem". Someone doesn't want the responsibility of a child, so they get rid of it.

I do believe that a baby is "alive" at conception. Whatever scientific terms you want to give it, that's fine. I don't pretend to know. But I suppose I see it as the possibility of a child. The human beings (the mother and the father) no longer have anything to do with it. If all goes well, the process will carry itself forward until a child is born into the real world. Even if you believe the baby is not "alive" at the abortion stage, you are still denying a child a chance at life! As I said, if all goes well, that creature in the womb will become a living, breathing child. And yet that possibility is denied because of irresponsibility.

For myself, that hurts. That seems so selfish. It's just...something I react harshly to. It's hard to explain, but I really don't understand such a mindset. Sad
_________________

"It's not about the legacy you leave, it's about the life you live." ~Mara Jade Skywalker



View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website

 PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:00 pm Reply with quote  
Message
  Dancelittleewok
EUC Staff
EUC Staff

Joined: 15 Sep 2010
Posts: 1160
Location: Kansas

Quote:
I guess my point is that whatever you believe ultimately the choice is in the woman's hands. It's her decision. If a man doesn't want to be faced with an unplanned pregnancy then maybe he should take responsibility to ensure a pregnancy does not happen.


Ideally it should be up to the couple, especially in a marriage. The child shares both the mother and the father's DNA. Women, too, can ensure a pregnancy doesn't happen by taking the Pill or using other contraceptives.
_________________
Observation: Life would be cooler if everyone spoke like HK-47.

Communications Coordinator at EUCantina.


View user's profile Send private message

 PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:18 pm Reply with quote  
Message
  Cerrinea
Master
Master

Joined: 09 Jun 2009
Posts: 1491

Dancelittleewok wrote:
Ideally it should be up to the couple, especially in a marriage. The child shares both the mother and the father's DNA. Women, too, can ensure a pregnancy doesn't happen by taking the Pill or using other contraceptives.


Well, a baby always shares the DNA of both parents whether they're married or not. The difference with marriage is that there's suppose to be a level of intimacy and trust where pressuring the pregnant spouse to get an abortion is a betrayal of the marriage bond.

In an ideal world birth control would be 100% effective, but it isn't. That's why if neither partner wants an unplanned pregnancy they should both use birth control methods. One of them is bound not to fail. The advantage of male birth control is that it's readily available without a doctor's visit or prescription, and it's much cheaper. We've all seen this past week (unless you've been living under a rock) what a contentious issue insurance coverage for women's birth control is.

Also the question specifically addressed a man's reaction so I was giving a specific man's reaction from my personal experience.
_________________
Roqoo Depot co-founder.


Last edited by Cerrinea on Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:58 pm; edited 1 time in total


View user's profile Send private message

 PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:41 pm Reply with quote  
Message
  illogicalRogue2
Administrator
Administrator

Joined: 01 Sep 2009
Posts: 2854
Location: ....last know presence was near the Tingel Arm..

Mara Jade Skywalker wrote:
Cerrinea wrote:
If a man doesn't want to be faced with an unplanned pregnancy then maybe he should take responsibility to ensure a pregnancy does not happen.


See, I feel this is where Pro-Life activists (including myself) get a lot of their passion from. We feel like abortion, in many cases, is just an answer to irresponsibility. A woman got pregnant and she or the father (or both) doesn't want the responsibility of dealing with a child. Often enough, I would imagine, it does not have to do with financial instability or immaturity or health. It has to do with a simple "solution" to a "problem". Someone doesn't want the responsibility of a child, so they get rid of it.

I do believe that a baby is "alive" at conception. Whatever scientific terms you want to give it, that's fine. I don't pretend to know. But I suppose I see it as the possibility of a child. The human beings (the mother and the father) no longer have anything to do with it. If all goes well, the process will carry itself forward until a child is born into the real world. Even if you believe the baby is not "alive" at the abortion stage, you are still denying a child a chance at life! As I said, if all goes well, that creature in the womb will become a living, breathing child. And yet that possibility is denied because of irresponsibility.

For myself, that hurts. That seems so selfish. It's just...something I react harshly to. It's hard to explain, but I really don't understand such a mindset. Sad


See and for me this is the prime real-estate of the youth got raped. So the 10 year old who was raped gets to be irresponsible for committing the abortion that alows her to remain a child for a little longer. Vs having to grow up right then and there due to some rapist. (though I do get where you are coming from I still can't go 100% Pro-Life.)


I think my issue with Pro-Life is for many it's not just about the pro life, but about telling others how they should live their lives based on someone else's beliefs.

That's why I'll always be Pro-Life through Pro-Choice. If Pro-Lifers are worried they can't educate people well enough I don't see making more laws helping.
_________________

-Bring on your thousands, one at a time or all in a rush. I don't give a damn. None shall pass.
-
-To become a Jedi, it is not the Force one must learn to control but oneself.
-
-Podcasts: Star Wars Beyond the Films, The Star Wars Report, & EUCast


View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger

 PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:18 am Reply with quote  
Message
  Salaris Vorn
Moderator
Moderator

Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 2176
Location: New York, USA

Just on this idea of responsible vs. irrisponsible and going back to Taral's comments on Plan B:

From what Taral said (and I'll go with that since I have little knowledge beyond knowing it exists) I assume that it is capable of both preventing fertilization from occurring and can also terminate a newly fertilized egg. If this is correct then that leads to my next question:

In the event of a condom breaking or realizing she forgot to take her pills is a couple being responsible if the woman takes Plan B? Specifically since the woman probably won't know if the egg is fertilized or not at this early stage is she being responsible by taking final steps to prevent fertilization from occurring or is she being irresponsible for unintentionally/unknowingly terminating a fertilized egg in an effort to avoid having to require an abortion (the elective kind being debated here)?

Not trying to pick on anyone here but I'm 1) curious how Plan B works and (assuming it can terminate a fertilized egg) 2) curious how both sides view this use given that the woman is not necessarily aware that the egg has already been fertilized
_________________


View user's profile Send private message

 PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:57 am Reply with quote  
Message
  Cerrinea
Master
Master

Joined: 09 Jun 2009
Posts: 1491

Plan B will not work if a pregnancy already exists. It only prevents pregnancy from occurring.

RU-486 (Mifiprex) does end a very early pregnancy.
_________________
Roqoo Depot co-founder.


View user's profile Send private message

 PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:08 am Reply with quote  
Message
  Taral-DLOS
EUC Staff
EUC Staff

Joined: 23 Nov 2010
Posts: 1621
Location: Ontario, Canada

Cerrinea wrote:
Plan B will not work if a pregnancy already exists. It only prevents pregnancy from occurring.

RU-486 (Mifiprex) does end a very early pregnancy.


There's an intermediate step worth considering. Plan B does not end pregnancy, but it can stop a fertilized egg from implanting in the uterine wall.

PlanB.ca wrote:
Plan B is simple to use
And remember the sooner you take it the more effective it is.

plan B is two pills which you take together. If taken within 72 hours, it prevents pregnancy by doing one of three things:

Temporarily stops the release of an egg from the ovary
Prevents fertilization
Prevents a fertilized egg from attaching to the uterus
plan B is not an abortion pill—if you take plan B you will not be terminating a pregnancy.

If you are already pregnant and take plan B, there’s no evidence that plan B will harm you or the fetus

_________________
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."
-Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear


View user's profile Send private message

 PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:46 am Reply with quote  
Message
  Cerrinea
Master
Master

Joined: 09 Jun 2009
Posts: 1491

Quote:
There's an intermediate step worth considering. Plan B does not end pregnancy, but it can stop a fertilized egg from implanting in the uterine wall.


Which is also what some IUDs may do. So if you're (general you) partner uses an IUD for birth control, is that a problem too?
_________________
Roqoo Depot co-founder.


View user's profile Send private message

 PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:46 pm Reply with quote  
Message
  Salaris Vorn
Moderator
Moderator

Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 2176
Location: New York, USA

Thanks for the correction/specification on what Plan B does. Very interesting facts, carry on!
_________________


View user's profile Send private message

 PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:49 pm Reply with quote  
Message
  Autobon
Master
Master

Joined: 17 Apr 2008
Posts: 751
Location: Seattle, Washington

Unfortunately too common in China - http://ca.news.yahoo.com/china-probes-forced-abortion-case-amid-uproar-070412976.html

Interestingly, this is one of the big issues that Chen Guangcheng (blind lawyer who escaped to US embassy a couple months back) fought to expose.


View user's profile Send private message

 PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:29 pm Reply with quote  
Message
  Hogy
Master
Master

Joined: 14 Dec 2011
Posts: 868
Location: Nar Shaddaa

^^^ Not only forced abortions (like that isn't enough), but even killing of infant girls has been happening (too lazy to find source, just google female infanticide or something, it should bring plenty of stuff to read).

This one child rule must have sounded good on the paper, but it brought one of the most brutal outcomes in the history of mankind imo.

And look what they have now. Now that the one child rule generation has grown up.
Too many males and not enough females. Heck I'm neither anthropologist or psychologist, but I know this can't end well.


View user's profile Send private message

Post new topic   Reply to topic    The EUCantina Forums Forum Index » The Meditation Grove

Page 12 of 12
All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 10, 11, 12

Display posts from previous:

  

Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
Jedi Knights 2 by Scott Stubblefield