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 PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:07 pm Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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There's a difference between inherent power and skill. Yoda was more skilled; not necessarily more powerful.

The point though is that both Anakin and Vitiate were roughly equivalent, and yet Vitiate killed his father with a thought, tortured and killed his mother and then forced the villagers to bow down to him, killing with the Force those who didn't.

He killed his real father, a Sith lord, stripping him of the Force and his sanity. He was ten years old. Without any training.

Anakin, on the other hand, won a pod race and destroyed the droid control ship.
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 PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:16 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Vitiate's was infinitely more awesome. Anakin was kinda obnoxious when he did his stuff...
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 PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:57 pm Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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Well, honestly, what you see as awesome I see as ridiculous. Really, that kind of power in an untrained 10-year-old? Anakin was much more realistic.

Well, as realistic as you can get when you're talking a fictional universe where the Force exists. Very Happy
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 PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:15 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Cerrinea wrote:
Well, honestly, what you see as awesome I see as ridiculous. Really, that kind of power in an untrained 10-year-old? Anakin was much more realistic.

Well, as realistic as you can get when you're talking a fictional universe where the Force exists. Very Happy


Haha true Wink

I dunno, I would just love to see what damaged him or opened him to that power. Its one thing to toss it out there like we're just supposed to accept it, its another to actually make sense of it.
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 PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:08 pm Reply with quote  
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  SidiousThrawn
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What is power? Does a high MC count give you great power? Does great power come after years of experiance and training? Does not having the Force mean you are not powerful?

These are questions it looks like the Movies & the EU is trying to answer. Here's my opinion:

1. Power is the ability to get people to follow your command. It is the ability to out think your enemies and back them into impossible situations to get out of. A person can be physically powerful but not intellectually powerful and vice versa.
2. Having a High MC count does not make you automatically powerful. One needs to train and learn through life experience what is/is not possible. Look at Anakin he wasn't using the Force to it's full potential b/c he didn't have decades of training under his belt like Yoda and Windu did.
3. Not having the Foce does not mean you are not powerful. Daala,Brosk Fey'lya and others were the best at political manuvering. Thrawn was the best at Military Strategy. Fett was the most powerful BH.

By these Sidious was the most powerful being in the Movies and EU because he could out think his enemies and he could use the Force to hide himself and bring the Jedi to their knees. He didn't need physical power so much as he needed intellectual. He used his political power to manipulate the Senate and the Jedi Order into doing what he wanted them to do. He could even string Vader along after his transformation from Jedi-Sith.

Sorry for getting off topic but, the games should not be canon since, their out come changes based on who's playing them. Some of the books based on the games should not be canon (FLI & II esp). FL2 since, it ends with the RA having captured Vader.
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 PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:56 pm Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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Quote:
Sorry for getting off topic but, the games should not be canon since, their out come changes based on who's playing them.


Players don't determine canon. In the case of Revan, Drew Karpyshyn set the canon -- which created more than a little moaning and groaning among KotoR fans.
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 PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:05 am Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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Something else to keep in mind is that Star Wars, from the onset, created a place for super hero type characters to exist. Force users can move things with their mind, sense things that give them an extra edge, etc.

But Star Wars was very careful in the first three films to show that the Force did not make one all powerful. Even as powerful as Palpatine was, as feared as he was, he was still stopped. We knew Luke was at a disadvantage because he didn't have as much training and experience as Vader and Palpatine. The difference in power had an in-universe mechanic to it. It felt logical. It made sense.

Expand out to the entire EU. Certain Force users have pushed the limits of what we thought was previously possible. It can be fun to read these sorts of moments. But the question remains: do we want to see more characters like Vitiate?

Vitiate is very powerful, and it's certain that he'll have some sort of weakness to balance it out and to enable someone to take him out. But do we want to see more characters like him? Do we want more 13 year old Sith ruling planets and trumping Sith Lords and living forever?

There may be room for one of these characters, someone new and fun to play with. Vitiate could be fleshed out more in other novels and could made into a very interesting, and who knows, believable character. But I for one do not want to see another Vitiate. Let him be the last for a while.
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 PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:40 am Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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Cerrinea wrote:
From Wookie:

Quote:
The overall scenario and documentation (cutscenes, manuals, strategy guides etc) are proper EU (see C-canon below). This, however, doesn't apply to "game mechanics" and stats.


That answers your Luke example question, but the other reason the Luke example isn't valid is because movie canon is G canon and therefore above C canon.


Sorry, but that doesn't answer my questions at all, you just repeated the things that I asked questions about in the first place.

Perhaps Luke and the DS was a bad example because I'm aware that it's G-canon. I wasn't referring to that incident specifically, but using it to outline a scenario that could happen in a game. Obviously in a real context we'd be referring to an event that only occurs in a game and it's canon status is limited to being decided by the criteria I discussed.

I'm not really asking you to answer those questions. No one can answer them except Lucas Arts. It's just something to think about.

Here's another glaring inequity: If game play is not canon, then how can a strategy guide, which just describes game play and is not even the game itself be canon and trump material in game? If the strategy guide tells me to make the character turn right and I go left it's not canon. But if it tells me to go right and I actuall go right...it's still not canon. Embarassed

You see how just because someone says something is official, it doesn't mean that it makes any sense and actually works the way it's supposed to.


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 PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:08 am Reply with quote  
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  Lord Ree'dius
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edited away.
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 PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:41 pm Reply with quote  
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  Taral-DLOS
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Cerrinea wrote:
Quote:
Sorry for getting off topic but, the games should not be canon since, their out come changes based on who's playing them.


Players don't determine canon. In the case of Revan, Drew Karpyshyn set the canon -- which created more than a little moaning and groaning among KotoR fans.


The New Essential Chronology set most of the canon, I think. It established Revan as a light-side male, and The Exile as a light-side female. It also established Jaden Korr as a male (though did not yet specify his species).

All The Old Republic: Revan added was some specific points on his appearance and what happened afterward. And all the appearance points can be discarded, since people look different over time (hair color/length, etc.)

I've been playing TOR, and there was a great easter egg regarding the clan of Revanites on Dromund Kaas.
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)

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 PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:38 pm Reply with quote  
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  Mace Windu
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I rarely include video game characters such as Galen Marek into the actual EU, as they ruin things.


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 PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:06 am Reply with quote  
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  papinacho
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Vitiate might have killed a Sith at ten years old but the printed EU itself has gone much farther than that with Palpatine destroying planets and Luke creating black holes. For that reason, I have no problems with that character in specific thought I think the power levels of force users are greatly exaggerated.


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