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 PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:23 am Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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I think it's safe to say that random acts of violence would decrease with more gun control. That is to say that people who already have access to guns are going to be more likely to use them then those that don't.

On the other hand anti-gun control advocates state the same reasoning. For crimes that are pre-meditated or for people who are determined to get guns no matter their legality, then as long as guns are being manufactured and distributed, they are going to get a hold of them and use them.


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 PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:31 am Reply with quote  
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  Life Is The Path
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If I may, I'd like to draw attention to the gun politics of the Swiss (as can be read here). They haven't as strict gun control as we do over here, or in other countries, yet their gun crime statistics are quite low - yet they love guns. It's quite normal to see someone walking about with a weapon. I think this is because the country has no army - because they are the army. The vast majority are conscripted men, performing national service, who are sent on mandatory gun courses and drills. They're taught to use a weapon responsibly, and alongside their own countrymen, not against them. Perhaps if national service was adopted, then there'd be fewer incidents like this?
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 PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:21 am Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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The Swiss also don't have the social issues of a lot of countries because of the standard of living in the country. Although, honestly, I think mandatory national service is great idea. But, all in all, comparing Switzerland to the U.S. doesn't work. There's just too many differences to make a viable comparison.
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 PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:33 pm Reply with quote  
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  DannikJerriko
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There's been another in France. A man shot 4 toddlers (aged 4-6) and a teacher at point blank range. Sad times Crying or Very sad I feel bad for putting that emoticon, as it doesn't accurately convey the severity and depth of the situation. But it's the best I can do online. Thoughts with the families and friends.
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 PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:47 am Reply with quote  
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  Life Is The Path
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It was racially motivated, wasn't it? Rather than indiscriminate, the shooter - a neo-Nazi - specifically went after Jewish children (although I think it was a Jewish school, rather than mixed, so that's probably why he chose that school).
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 PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:36 am Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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I disagree with the idea that people who have "respect" for weapons aka. a technical knowledge and training in their use, are less likely to use them.

I'd say this is a general misconception that isn't really applicable to any statistical correlation.

As I said, in general a person who has easy access to a gun is more likely to use it then one who does not. That's common sense. But it's immediately blurred when trying to put into context. Despite the high availability of guns in the US the majority of crimes are not committed using guns, even when it would be more desirable for the likelihood of the intended outcome of the perpetrator to use one.

The use of guns in violent crimes seems so statistically high because of the gun itself which is more lethal than anything else- often as an unintended consequence. Studies show that most gun use in crimes is not intended to be lethal, but owing to the former statement it bumps up the statistics of gun deaths and injuries in crime.

To speculate it would seem that most criminals are hesitant to use guns because of the likelihood of getting caught using a legally owned gun, the lack of availability and difficulty of acquiring an illegal purchase of a gun, the lethality of the gun and the deterrence of a harsher penalty for the use of a gun in a crime than without.

It is also difficult to correlate the difference in gun crime in the US versus other countries. The US has the largest gun crime rate and also a higher overall violence rating than other comparable countries. Conversely it has a lower non-violent and minor offense rate than other comparable countries. The same statistics from above also appear to apply internationally- Countries with low gun violence rates are ones that have lower overall violence rates, and vice versa.

What should seem obvious is supported by this data: The key factors in violence and crime are socio-economic conditions and institutionalized policies of law enforcement.

In fact, the US has the world's highest incarceration rate per capita, and this correlates with nearly every category of crime analysis. In total opposition to general thinking is it shown that the more people you have in prison the more crime increases across the board and that this is the critical factor in the US's crime rate. But that's another discussion.

My source for this is the manual "Crime" edited by James Q. Wilson.


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 PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:05 am Reply with quote  
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  SidiousThrawn
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Crimes involving guns are not the only problems in school. Down here a 16yr old girl slashed the neck of another teenage with a knife. The victum is in critical condition this morning but is expected to survive.
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 PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:49 am Reply with quote  
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  Hogy
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Well gentleman and ladies, I'm sure you all know about the Elementary School shootings (I don't follow news anymore, that's why I'm posting this late). As karked up I think the whole thing is, I'm not posting here to discuss the whole psychology behind school shootings, nor is my post meant as a discussion on how nations should write their gun control laws.

I just want to state that I think keeping a thread like this in The Mos Eisley is wrong! This should be moved in the Med Grove (being locked is no excuse).

Or are we becoming monsters that can't handle talking about religion, sexuality, politics and such (because sometimes we can get carried away), but are perfectly cool on discussing about little girls getting their brains blown out by a random motherkarker?


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 PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:16 am Reply with quote  
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  Alan Skywalker V
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School shootings are no laughing matter at all. What happened at Sandy Hook was deeply upsetting; that's why I haven't posted about it.

And I resent the implications of your last statement. My point in starting this thread was not to be casual about this stuff. It hurts when I hear of students being killed at school. In fact, it terrifies me - my mom works as a sub at our local middle school and I never know if someone is going to walk in one day when she's there and start shooting. The point is, terrible as they are, school shootings will always happen and we can't forget that.

As for moving this thread, you'll have to ask Skuldren or Salaris to do that. Though I'm thinking maybe it should just be locked.


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 PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:55 am Reply with quote  
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  Hogy
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^I know you were the one who brought this thread to life Alan. Cantina keeps track of the authors after all.

My post was not intended as a personal attack/offense against you. In fact you are one of the nicest persons here on the EUC forums. You made a thread here and that is all.

But I (ME, Myself) do feel like sicko and psycho for not being able to talk about my vegan cousin (or whatever) in the Med Grove, but can talk stuff like this here.

And this is what I feel is wrong here. This is why I call ALL of us monsters for.

I have hope in Mods and Admins though.


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 PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:16 am Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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Quote:
The point is, terrible as they are, school shootings will always happen and we can't forget that.


Imo, people need to stop thinking this way. School shootings didn't happen when I was a kid so this isn't something that's always been with us and therefore we just need to accept it.

That aside, I'm just sick about this. I can't even put it in words. I can't even begin to fathom the mind that could murder 6 & 7 yr olds. I hurt so badly for the parents and family of these children, and the families of the school staff.

I am pro-gun control (to a certain extent), but as a former psych nurse, I also know how badly mental health care has been gutted in this country. This situation has been 30 years in the making and we are finally seeing the long-term effects of bad policy.
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 PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:39 am Reply with quote  
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  Alan Skywalker V
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Cerrinea, not for you, no. But for me and others who are 25 or younger here in the States, it could seem that way. Note I say could. Some may see it that way - I certainly do; but some may not.

According to Wiki (which isn't always reliable, I know) there's been at least one school shooting, whether elem, middle, high, or college, and sometimes more, each year since 1991. A huge majority of those don't make the news, but they still happened. It's only the notorious ones (Columbine, VT, Sandy Hook) that make the news. We see them on the news, but not the countless others thathave occured.

And I'm not saying that we have to blindly accept this. The country does need to do something about both gun laws and getting help for those who have problems, but I'm afraid that we're going to be seeing more school incidents until something is done.


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 PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:53 am Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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Cerrinea wrote:
Quote:
The point is, terrible as they are, school shootings will always happen and we can't forget that.


Imo, people need to stop thinking this way. School shootings didn't happen when I was a kid so this isn't something that's always been with us and therefore we just need to accept it.


Humanity is messed up and has been for all recorded history and, as far as I'm concerned, will be for the rest of our history, but that doesn't mean we should take things like this lying down. America has things they can do about school shootings (e.g. get rid of assault rifles/hand guns and spend more on mental healthcare).
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 PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:05 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Reepicheep wrote:
Cerrinea wrote:
Quote:
The point is, terrible as they are, school shootings will always happen and we can't forget that.


Imo, people need to stop thinking this way. School shootings didn't happen when I was a kid so this isn't something that's always been with us and therefore we just need to accept it.


Humanity is messed up and has been for all recorded history and, as far as I'm concerned, will be for the rest of our history, but that doesn't mean we should take things like this lying down. America has things they can do about school shootings (e.g. get rid of assault rifles/hand guns and spend more on mental healthcare).


Unfortunately as much as I think we need more money in mental health care part of our Bill of Rights can' be changed, so while we can regulate what is available to the public we still have to allow people to own guns. I do, however, think they need a stronger mental health screen for it. But even if its illegal people will get their hands on them. Pot and cocaine are illegal, yet I know people who do the former constantly and I know some who do the latter fairly regularly. When we banned alcohol we just had a huge increase in trafficking and such, and indeed it worked its way into things like gatherings that also led to an increase in prostitution and drug use. So we repealed it. Legalizing marijuana is making it less of a taboo thing, but with guns there has to be more regulation. I'm hoping eventually it will be required to have a full psychiatric evaluation to buy one and that buying a gun safe will be mandatory so that kids won't have access to them.
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 PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:20 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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Caedus_16 wrote:
Unfortunately as much as I think we need more money in mental health care part of our Bill of Rights can' be changed, so while we can regulate what is available to the public we still have to allow people to own guns.


Allowing people to own assault rifles is ridiculous to me. What else are they going to use them for?

Caedus_16 wrote:
I do, however, think they need a stronger mental health screen for it. But even if its illegal people will get their hands on them. Pot and cocaine are illegal, yet I know people who do the former constantly and I know some who do the latter fairly regularly. When we banned alcohol we just had a huge increase in trafficking and such, and indeed it worked its way into things like gatherings that also led to an increase in prostitution and drug use. So we repealed it. Legalizing marijuana is making it less of a taboo thing, but with guns there has to be more regulation. I'm hoping eventually it will be required to have a full psychiatric evaluation to buy one and that buying a gun safe will be mandatory so that kids won't have access to them.


I hear the "people will get guns anyway" argument a lot, but I still think it would help somewhat. I wouldn't know where to begin looking for a shady arms dealer, so I doubt I'd be able to get my hands on an assualt rifle even if I wanted one. Also guns are a different thing than alcohol and drugs. I imagine less people would run the risk of getting caught with illegal merchandise without an addiction to it (though I suppose some people are addicted to guns Rolling Eyes ).

I f people absolutely need guns, I like your idea of psychiatric evaluation... except that people would just steal each others guns. I still think an outright ban would be the best.
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