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Shadow Games by Michael Reaves and Maya Kaathryn Bohnhoff
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 PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:49 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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VileZero wrote:
Arawn_Fenn wrote:
and the readers are constantly getting screwed as a result.


I disagree. If a book has incorrect dates, and it pulls you out of the story so hard that you feel the need to complain about an incorrect date found in a 300+ page book, I'd argue that the problem lies with the reader.

Seriously, are people reading these books with Wookieepedia up to search everything? Just enjoy the book, and if something bounces by that's wrong, just roll your eyes. Not everything is perfect, we can't even get our OWN history straight.


The story can suck so long as it doesn't contradict anything. That's what is important. Enjoyment of the story is wholly contingent upon it.


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 PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:01 pm Reply with quote  
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  Arawn_Fenn
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VileZero wrote:
If a book has incorrect dates, and it pulls you out of the story so hard that you feel the need to complain about an incorrect date found in a 300+ page book, I'd argue that the problem lies with the reader.


Your standards of quality are seemingly more permissive than mine. You can call that a problem that "lies with me" if you insist, but I would think that kind of thing goes both ways. At some point a mentality of "the whistleblower IS the problem" just keeps the door open for further incompetence and total lack of attention or oversight. There are many more problems with the books in question than just the incorrect dates ( and the associated confusion between separate plotlines ). For one thing, the prequels have obtained such a toxic cultural reputation that even franchise authors apparently won't watch them unless forced, because the text often betrays a significant lack of familiarity with what took place in the films. Remember the part in AOTC when Anakin departed from Coruscant on his mission to Tatooine? I don't either.

VileZero wrote:
Seriously, are people reading these books with Wookieepedia up to search everything?


No, and that's the whole point. I'm not talking about mistakes that one would need to have a Wookieepedia page in front of them to recognize, or even things like the careless usage of alien species that aren't supposed to be known to the galaxy at large at a given point in time. I'm talking about facepalm-inducing blunders that are immediately apparent to the reader and which never should have survived the "editing" stage. For years this franchise has been saddled with "editors" who basically do nothing but cheerlead. I don't need cheerleading. I need quality control.


Last edited by Arawn_Fenn on Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:07 pm; edited 4 times in total


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 PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:03 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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I find it interesting that my idea of quality consists of good novels like the Thrawn trilogy and some of the New Jedi Order series, whereas your post seems to use "quality" as synonymous with "lacking continuity errors"?


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 PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:27 pm Reply with quote  
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  Arawn_Fenn
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Both things are important to overall quality IMO.

Speaking of the Thrawn trilogy, those books were mostly free of mistakes. Except for the part where we hear of armored Vader running around years before Luke's conception.


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 PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:06 pm Reply with quote  
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  VileZero
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Puh-leeze.

The VAST majority of those who read these books just do so because they want a fun story, not for perfect continuity. Yes, let's restrict an author's freedom to tell a great story because the Chiss shouldn't have been around during this period in the timeline. I read Shadow Games, and didn't even realize the Lando continuity mistake because I was just reading the story, not fact-checking every sentence in the book. And in hindsight? Uh, it makes absolutely no difference to me. It doesn't impact the story in any way, whatsoever.

I'm at the point now where, when people point out small continuity errors as a reason to complain about a book, I just tune them out. Nothing's perfect. Just enjoy the story for what it is.


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 PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:10 pm Reply with quote  
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  Arawn_Fenn
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VileZero wrote:
Yes, let's restrict an author's freedom to tell a great story because the Chiss shouldn't have been around during this period in the timeline.


This is a fallacy, and one that is becoming increasingly popular. It is implied that attention to continuity and "freedom to tell a great story" are in some way mutually exclusive. They are not. The mere mention of Zahn in this thread should be enough to dispel that notion.


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 PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:37 pm Reply with quote  
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  Darth_Henning
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Well, I finally just finished this. Overall, very good IMHO.

Leebo was hilarious in parts and for some reason that stuck out.


I'm not going to comment on the date issue since that's already been talked about, but I caught a larger continuity issue at play here.

It's made quite clear that the end of this book is meant to occur in the hours immediately before ANH. The only catch is, Rebel Dream already did that. And while there are similarities that could possibly allow such to be overlooked, guess who Han was talking too in the Cantina at the end of Rebel Dream? Dash Rendar. Who comments that they haven't seen each other in a while, and then they proceed to talk and catch up on events (albeit briefly).

Its minor, and can probably be worked around by adding a few hours between the end of SG, and end of RD to allow Dash to make the joke about "a long time" and have heard about the events in RD, but its annoying that none of the authors realized this. I picked up on it as soon as I realized when they were trying to have the book fit in.


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 PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:57 am Reply with quote  
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  ADG12311990
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Where was Lando mentioned in Shadow Games? I might have read the wrong book. But, I don't remember ever seeing a mention of Lando Or Cloud City while I was reading it. Apparently, people on here and on some EU Facebook pages were overreacting just a little to something I didn't see.

Still, I really enjoyed it. I was sad that Eaden ended up dying. (I don't often feel that way about characters that I just find out about.)
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 PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:21 am Reply with quote  
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  Darth_Henning
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Lando was mentioned preipherally at some point. I admit I don't actually remember the quote.

Not sure what the issue would be. I didn't catch it and I'm a continuity nut for most things.


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 PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:24 am Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Arawn_Fenn wrote:


This is a fallacy, and one that is becoming increasingly popular. It is implied that attention to continuity and "freedom to tell a great story" are in some way mutually exclusive. They are not. The mere mention of Zahn in this thread should be enough to dispel that notion.


You kind of consider yourself a canon expert doncha?
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 PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:40 am Reply with quote  
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Darth_Henning wrote:
Lando was mentioned preipherally at some point. I admit I don't actually remember the quote.

Not sure what the issue would be. I didn't catch it and I'm a continuity nut for most things.


I haven't read it, but I've heard enough to know what was mentioned. It mentioned Lando being administrator for Cloud City and owning Lady Luck before he was supposed to be.
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 PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:33 pm Reply with quote  
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  Arawn_Fenn
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Caedus_16 wrote:
Arawn_Fenn wrote:


This is a fallacy, and one that is becoming increasingly popular. It is implied that attention to continuity and "freedom to tell a great story" are in some way mutually exclusive. They are not. The mere mention of Zahn in this thread should be enough to dispel that notion.


You kind of consider yourself a canon expert doncha?


No. Do you mean the concept itself, or are you talking about knowledge of content? I really only know about the sources I own, which at this point is only a fraction of what's out there.
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 PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:23 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Arawn_Fenn wrote:
Caedus_16 wrote:
Arawn_Fenn wrote:


This is a fallacy, and one that is becoming increasingly popular. It is implied that attention to continuity and "freedom to tell a great story" are in some way mutually exclusive. They are not. The mere mention of Zahn in this thread should be enough to dispel that notion.


You kind of consider yourself a canon expert doncha?


No. Do you mean the concept itself, or are you talking about knowledge of content? I really only know about the sources I own, which at this point is only a fraction of what's out there.


The way you voice your opinion is very over-lording, as if your own ideas are more valid than other people's. You're argumentative to be right, not to figure out what it really is. That's why I rarely engage you. You argue till you are in a corner and then spout random nonsense and the sad thing is no matter what its over a world of fiction where the characters aren't real and its all entertainment. I argue canon and I'm a stickler for it, but I do my best not to be insulting or rude about it. You don't. In fact I've been in other forums where you've been extremely rude to even authors about canon issues and your own interpretation. It gets old. All I'm saying. I don't mind discussing things with you, but only if you're gonna be civil. If you're looking for people to tell you that you're right all the time hire yes men. If you're looking for discussion I'll always happily engage. Just a thought, you don't have to listen or acknowledge it, but you'd have more people willing to talk to you here if you were less egotistical about the things you know and your opinion of them and more open to discussion.
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 PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:59 am Reply with quote  
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  Darth_Henning
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Life Is The Path wrote:
Darth_Henning wrote:
Lando was mentioned preipherally at some point. I admit I don't actually remember the quote.

Not sure what the issue would be. I didn't catch it and I'm a continuity nut for most things.


I haven't read it, but I've heard enough to know what was mentioned. It mentioned Lando being administrator for Cloud City and owning Lady Luck before he was supposed to be.


I have to admit, I completely missed that one. Should have caught Cloud City being out of place.

I did have to look up when he got Lady Luck though since I didn't actually know.

Interesting.


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 PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:12 pm Reply with quote  
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  Arawn_Fenn
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Caedus_16 wrote:
You're argumentative to be right, not to figure out what it really is.


You seem to insist that these things must be in opposition. However, they are one and the same.

Caedus_16 wrote:
You argue till you are in a corner and then spout random nonsense


That didn't happen. Everything I said was based on canonical evidence and logic. Returning to the recent case, there is a tendency to excuse away continuity mistakes by insisting that not making those continuity mistakes would have compromised the author's ability to "tell a great story". However, that is demonstrably untrue; these things are not mutually exclusive. I even gave an example disproving the idea. In response to this, who do we find in a corner "spouting random nonsense" like "you must think you're a canon expert"?
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