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 PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 4:08 pm Reply with quote  
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  comanderbly
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Queen Padmè Skywalker wrote:
*whispers* Uh, guys? These are movies about a, to quote Tony Stark, "giant green rage monster," Y'all are getting pretty serious about this. Wink


HAHA! Smile

I had so much fun watching the avengers. Did anyone catch the second post credit scene...
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 PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 4:21 pm Reply with quote  
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  VileZero
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Queen Padmè Skywalker wrote:
*whispers* Uh, guys? These are movies about a, to quote Tony Stark, "giant green rage monster," Y'all are getting pretty serious about this. Wink


I think some of us (rightfully) took offense to the absurd notion that not liking The Hulk comes from the movie being "too high-brow."


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 PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 5:19 pm Reply with quote  
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  Dancelittleewok
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comanderbly wrote:

I had so much fun watching the avengers. Did anyone catch the second post credit scene...
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I'll suggest it to Marvel, because I would Hulk for that poster. Very Happy
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 PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 9:52 pm Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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VileZero wrote:
Queen Padmè Skywalker wrote:
*whispers* Uh, guys? These are movies about a, to quote Tony Stark, "giant green rage monster," Y'all are getting pretty serious about this. Wink


I think some of us (rightfully) took offense to the absurd notion that not liking The Hulk comes from the movie being "too high-brow."


Yet, you seem to prove me right because those are the things that you say you didn't like about the movie: It's experimental film work and it's emotional characterization. Hulk 2 was a typical in every way special effects action movie with zero emotional depth or characterization.

The physical changes in the hulk to show his mental state is one of the best things about the movie and entirely consistent with his portrayal in the comics, except that it is less dynamic in a static 2d form. Other than personal preference I don't see how that can be argued as a flaw. Really none of these things can. People wanted a lowbrow movie and they got it in Hulk 2, and anyone is certainly entitled to liking it better. People can like whatever movies they want to. But that doesn't mean that makes it a valid technical critique. Some of the worst movies ever made by all accounts other than popularity are the most successful commercially.

And trying to compare the movie to other directors that did not do super hero movies is pointless. A good comparison would be to Bryan Singer whose super hero movies are by far poorer than his dramas.

Also talking about Nolan is unfair. We'll probably never have another The Dark Knight, and if that is the yardstick to compare super hero movies, then none of the Avenger's tie-ins can even be in the conversation.

PS. In Hulk 2's defense, you can blame a good deal of the problems on editing. Ed Norton has said how dissatisfied with the movie he was in post, and maybe we would have seen a different film in a different cut.


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 PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 10:08 pm Reply with quote  
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  Queen Padmè Skywalker
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*raises eyebrow* Goodness, y'all. Just...goodness.
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 PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 10:24 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Dog-Poop_Walker wrote:
VileZero wrote:
Queen Padmè Skywalker wrote:
*whispers* Uh, guys? These are movies about a, to quote Tony Stark, "giant green rage monster," Y'all are getting pretty serious about this. Wink


I think some of us (rightfully) took offense to the absurd notion that not liking The Hulk comes from the movie being "too high-brow."


Yet, you seem to prove me right because those are the things that you say you didn't like about the movie: It's experimental film work and it's emotional characterization. Hulk 2 was a typical in every way special effects action movie with zero emotional depth or characterization.

The physical changes in the hulk to show his mental state is one of the best things about the movie and entirely consistent with his portrayal in the comics, except that it is less dynamic in a static 2d form. Other than personal preference I don't see how that can be argued as a flaw. Really none of these things can. People wanted a lowbrow movie and they got it in Hulk 2, and anyone is certainly entitled to liking it better. People can like whatever movies they want to. But that doesn't mean that makes it a valid technical critique. Some of the worst movies ever made by all accounts other than popularity are the most successful commercially.

And trying to compare the movie to other directors that did not do super hero movies is pointless. A good comparison would be to Bryan Singer whose super hero movies are by far poorer than his dramas.

Also talking about Nolan is unfair. We'll probably never have another The Dark Knight, and if that is the yardstick to compare super hero movies, then none of the Avenger's tie-ins can even be in the conversation.

PS. In Hulk 2's defense, you can blame a good deal of the problems on editing. Ed Norton has said how dissatisfied with the movie he was in post, and maybe we would have seen a different film in a different cut.


I thought Hulk 2 aimed to be more personal and less 'big' than Hulk did. And you're right about Nolan being tied in, but I was comparing his film Following to Hulk as films set up as artistic notions and interpretations rather than blockbusters. I feel Ang Lee failed, but its not because I'm not "high-brow" but rather because my opinion is different. My favorite films are Se7en, Memento, Requiem for a Dream, and Un Chie Andelou (I think that's how you spell it) and that last one is beyond high-brow, but its inaccessible so for most its like cutting themselves. I also hated the album Lulu (if you're looking for the biggest laugh ever listen to The View off that album...so horrible haha) and that is the worst album ever made, but those who defend it state that we "just don't get it". My complaints with Ang Lee's interpretation were that he did absolutely nothing to the source material other than making him green and angry, the rest was botched. Eric Bana is a decent actor and to be fair to him I think he did a good job with what he had, but I still didn't like it. Film, like music, is all about taste. There can't be one right answer. If a film MUST be liked then the person making the statement has missed the point because no film will be universally liked (there were people who hated The Dark Knight...think on that) and Ang Lee's portrayal wasn't what I hoped for. The second film wasn't either but I thought it was better because I thought that Norton ran with Banner better. Would I have preferred Connolly to Tyler? Absolutely. But I thought Norton did better with the part and it was more focused on him AFTER he became Hulk. The first one gave you the backstory but the second was to show what the Hulk could do and also to show him learning to control it, which he very much did. The "high-brow" statement was something I think paints you in an unfair light because you're not really a "holier-than-thou" that I've ever seen and I think it was a wrong word choice on your part.
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 PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 10:47 pm Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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That's fair, and I knew that statement was inflammatory. It was partially tongue in cheek when I said that I was going to go IMDB here- for those that don't know it's a movie site where commentators always use excessive inflammatory statements like "this is the best movie ever and people who disagree should die!" They also always say that if someone didn't like a movie it was because they "didn't get it". People either love or hate a movie and often have no middle ground.

To be serious, I just object to the idea that people don't like the Hulk because it tried to do something different with a super hero movie. I don't think that is fair. To say that it was a failure in it's ultimate goal is a matter of opinion, and that would be fair.

In the same way it's not really fair to criticize a movie that is lacking in artistic merit just for that reason if that is not the films intent. There isn't anything wrong with escapist entertainment and it is unfortunate that the two seem to share such a wide gulf between audiences.


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 PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 12:00 am Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Dog-Poop_Walker wrote:
That's fair, and I knew that statement was inflammatory. It was partially tongue in cheek when I said that I was going to go IMDB here- for those that don't know it's a movie site where commentators always use excessive inflammatory statements like "this is the best movie ever and people who disagree should die!" They also always say that if someone didn't like a movie it was because they "didn't get it". People either love or hate a movie and often have no middle ground.

To be serious, I just object to the idea that people don't like the Hulk because it tried to do something different with a super hero movie. I don't think that is fair. To say that it was a failure in it's ultimate goal is a matter of opinion, and that would be fair.

In the same way it's not really fair to criticize a movie that is lacking in artistic merit just for that reason if that is not the films intent. There isn't anything wrong with escapist entertainment and it is unfortunate that the two seem to share such a wide gulf between audiences.


I would state that they are one and the same. I didn't mind that Hulk tried to do something different, I just didn't feel it hit the mark. It was too long, it was too convoluted (which usually I prefer actually) and it came off nonsensical instead of magical.
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 PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 3:09 am Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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Just finished watching Terminator 4. I think it's probably the best one after the original and although it raises epistemological questions about how it relates to the first movie, it's the only one in the series that that doesn't seriously violate the continuity of it's prequels.


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 PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 9:57 am Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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 PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 10:39 am Reply with quote  
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  Mara Jade Skywalker
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Dog-Poop_Walker wrote:
Just finished watching Terminator 4. I think it's probably the best one after the original and although it raises epistemological questions about how it relates to the first movie, it's the only one in the series that that doesn't seriously violate the continuity of it's prequels.


*gasp* But the second one is so good! Definitely my favorite. Have no love for the third, but I am a major fan of the other three. Smile
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 PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 10:51 am Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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T4 seems to be pretty reviled by many Terminator fans. T3 wasn't all that good, but the only thing seriously wrong with it was the lame villain. People love T2 but T2 is what sets up the predestination paradox- If they keep Skynet from being created than how could it send a Terminator back in time if it never exists? T3 was necessary to fix that and if it dropped the ball and led the franchise to ruin, it was James Cameron that sowed the seed.

I got a lot of feelz about Terminatior and Time Travel. Don't get me started if you thought my Hulk rant was bad, that was nothing.


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 PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 10:54 am Reply with quote  
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  VileZero
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I've enjoyed all of the Terminator flicks greatly, but T2 is definitely the best in my opinion.


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 PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 1:13 pm Reply with quote  
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  Queen Padmè Skywalker
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There was a time when I liked T3 better than T2. I haven't seen them in while, so my opinion may have changed. I rather liked T4, though.
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 PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 1:33 pm Reply with quote  
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  Taral-DLOS
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T2 > T1 > T4 > T3.

That is my view.
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