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Your least favorite EU novel?
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 PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:52 pm Reply with quote  
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  Hogy
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Arq wrote:
I know they're not novels, and have since been purged from SW altogether, but Glove of Darth Vader and the books in that "series", when I read them, were the worst books I'd ever read. I was ten and thought they were total crap. So every book I've read since then look like gems in comparison with those books.


Hey welcome to the EU Cantina forums Arq.

I haven't read Glove of Darth Vader, but most of the people I know, that have read it seem to agree with you.

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Sorry folks, been spending more time on a Magic: The Gathering forum.

The art part is what I find silly.

As for the military stuff, I was Army (just gt out after 6 years) so I can appreciate his strategy.

I had also forgotten to add Knight Errant to the list.


Well may be just "an art critic" with a military mind to you, but this is a universe where flashy swords and super powers make sanse. Timothy Zahn sure did a better job than a lot of other authors IMO.


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 PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:57 pm Reply with quote  
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  SidiousThrawn
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In anthropology, art is used to help understand civilizations/cultures and their beliefs. So, I can readily accept Thrawn's ability to gleam insights into other cultures through their art.


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Worst. Book. Ever.
 PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:16 pm Reply with quote  
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  Ultimatedash
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Splinter of the minds eye, made me want to break things.... Seriously, it had Luke dueling avaunt Darth Vader and cutting his arm off waaayy too early, he was way too advanced in his skills, and I just hated the book entirely.


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 PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:54 pm Reply with quote  
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  Corellias Dream
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I recently read the first book of the Black Fleet Crisis trilogy. I liked what the author did with Han and Lando, but Luke and Leia ended up looking stupid. I didn't bother with the other two books.

I also got a copy of Darksaber, as I'd not read it since it first came out. I don't care for K J Anderson's Jedi Academy books but I thought I'd give Darksabre a re-read, mostly as research for an article I'm writing.
God, it's awful. The best thing I can say is that it rattles along at a fair pace, and the plotline about Daala trying to get the warlords working together is good. The rest of it is pretty much beyond belief.
The Darksaber itself is a stupid design. It can only fire in one direction, like a torch shining a beam of light. It has no gun emplacements, no fighter support, and is slow to manourvre. All an enemy has to do is approach it from any direction other than straight towards the laser. A squadron of X-wings could destroy it. If Bevel Lemelisk is such a genius, why doesn't he realize this ? Why doesn't anyone ?

Then again, there seems to be a stupid ray affecting people throughout the galaxy. Admiral Ackbar gets humiliated in war games by Wedge because his strategy is based on 2D movement, as if on land. Wedge simply uses the 3 dimensions of flight to send ships up and down to attack.

The whole plot about General Madine attempting to sabotage the Darksaber achieves nothing except stupid behaviour and three, pointless deaths. The fate of the oh-so-threatening Darksaber itself is equally cheap and unsatisfying. It's defeated not by any cunning or bravery by the heroes, but because the villain is tight-fisted and stupid.

The attack on the Jedu Academy is also idiotic. For a start, the Imperial's tactics are bad - why send TIE's down to bomb the place: why not just obliterate it from space with an orbital bombardment ? Then the students and newly created knights start throwing TIEs around using the Force, before combining their Force skills to throw 17 Star Destroyers right out of the system. Meanwhile, Luke can't even summon enough Force ability to deal with a few Wampas. Mind you, these Wampas are far more intelligent than they seemed before, and their claws are tough enough to shred the hull of a spaceship.

The Empreror isn't immune to the stupid ray either. He executes Lemelisk for his flawed Death Star design, then transfers his consciousness to a clone body he happens to have had prepared. When he's not satisfied with the progess of the second Death Star he does the same again - six times. Now, the Emperor is trying out the consciousness transfer technique he hopes he'll be able use himself, but he's also punishing Lemelisk for his failures. If the engineer keeps failing so badly, surely it's a better idea to just kill him, get a new engineer and practice consciousness transfer on some minion ?

The whole book is full of plot holes, stupidity and let-downs.


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 PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:04 pm Reply with quote  
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  Arawn_Fenn
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SidiousThrawn wrote:
In anthropology, art is used to help understand civilizations/cultures and their beliefs. So, I can readily accept Thrawn's ability to gleam insights into other cultures through their art.



The only problem I have with it is that it seems too generalized. For example, I wouldn't feel all that comfortable assuming all Elomin necessarily think alike. Our planet has many divergent cultures.
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 PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:35 pm Reply with quote  
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  SidiousThrawn
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Arawn_Fenn wrote:
SidiousThrawn wrote:
In anthropology, art is used to help understand civilizations/cultures and their beliefs. So, I can readily accept Thrawn's ability to gleam insights into other cultures through their art.



The only problem I have with it is that it seems too generalized. For example, I wouldn't feel all that comfortable assuming all Elomin necessarily think alike. Our planet has many divergent cultures.


True but, deep down every individual in a species is the same. It's these subconscious traits that Thrawn is looking for.
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 PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:24 am Reply with quote  
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  Hogy
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SidiousThrawn wrote:
True but, deep down every individual in a species is the same. It's these subconscious traits that Thrawn is looking for.


No. Deep down not every individual is the same. At least not from a philosopher's POW (pscychologists would probably agree here, but I can't speak for them).

Look I'm a fan myself, but realisticly Thrawn wouldn't have worked.

With my (very) limited military experience sure, Thrawn would look at my art and say:
"Captain we're dealing with either a child or an idiot....."

That wouldn't work on humans as a whole. By the time he "gets" our work of arts, someone would blow his fleet away, using normal military tactics.


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 PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:09 am Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Hogy wrote:
SidiousThrawn wrote:
True but, deep down every individual in a species is the same. It's these subconscious traits that Thrawn is looking for.


No. Deep down not every individual is the same. At least not from a philosopher's POW (pscychologists would probably agree here, but I can't speak for them).

Look I'm a fan myself, but realisticly Thrawn wouldn't have worked.

With my (very) limited military experience sure, Thrawn would look at my art and say:
"Captain we're dealing with either a child or an idiot....."

That wouldn't work on humans as a whole. By the time he "gets" our work of arts, someone would blow his fleet away, using normal military tactics.


From a psychological standpoint we all have the same baser instincts but culture separates us greatly. However, it is speculated that if we had another couple thousand years its possible that we could form a tentative coalition (anthropologically speaking its technically possible but unlikely) though out artistic leanings would never mesh. Thrawn is cool and its all 'technically' possible but so far beyond unlikely that its ridiculous.
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 PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:57 am Reply with quote  
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  Life Is The Path
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In matters of what is and is not possible, I tend not to be concerned most about studying a painting to gain knowledge a culture's weakness, and more on the fact that most of the aliens are bipedal humanoids, zoom about in space with a hyperdrive, travel through time, and Ewoks winning against stormtroopers Wink .
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 PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:05 am Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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Hogy wrote:
That wouldn't work on humans as a whole. By the time he "gets" our work of arts, someone would blow his fleet away, using normal military tactics.


LMAO, that would have been the perfect ending to the series.

Thrawn "captures" some rebel art that they purposely created just to screw with him.

Like the scene where luke is training with Ben, except this time Han is wearing the blast-plate-down helmet. Luke says, "Use the force, Han!" and Han blindly flings paint around at the canvass like Jackson Pollock.

Thrawn is studying the deep cultural meaning of the painting and he gets blown to smithereens!
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 PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:26 pm Reply with quote  
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  SidiousThrawn
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Not funny.

I'm going to have to disagree with you guys. Anthropologists use art every day to learn about various cultures both past and present.
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 PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:32 pm Reply with quote  
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  Corellias Dream
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I quite agree with you that you can learn about cultures from their art - I studied archaeology and some anthropology so I've done it myself.

I still love the idea of Han blindly creating random paintings to mess with Thrawn's mind though.


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 PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:44 pm Reply with quote  
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  Mara Jade Skywalker
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Corellias Dream wrote:
I still love the idea of Han blindly creating random paintings to mess with Thrawn's mind though.


Agreed, I found that most amusing. Very Happy
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 PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:30 pm Reply with quote  
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  Corellias Dream
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I suspect Thrawn's smart enough to see through it though.


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 PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:52 pm Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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Corellias Dream wrote:
I suspect Thrawn's smart enough to see through it though.


Ok then.

Thrawn studying painting: "The rebels are imbeciles. Their organization looks like it's being run by a smuggler, an heiress and a moister farmer. Destroy their fleet!"
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They have taken the hearts and minds of our leaders. They have recruited the rich and the powerful, and they have blinded us to the truth! Our human spirit is corrupted. Why do we worship greed? Because, outside the limit of our sight, feeding off us, perched on top of us from birth to death are OUR OWNERS. They have us! They control us! They are our masters! Wake up! They’re all about you, all around you!


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