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 PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:28 pm Reply with quote  
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  Ultimatedash
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^ I agree, it was very interesting to see them I thought, but then they disappeared for FOTJ!! and personally I'm even fine with Ben as a character, but not fine with like Mara said, how they sacrifice others for him. And what in the world is the whole Luke wondering if Ben will be a good grandmaster coming from?? Since when do u get that title just from being born!?!??


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Re: Characters
 PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:09 am Reply with quote  
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  Werehunter
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Ultimatedash wrote:
^ I agree, it was very interesting to see them I thought, but then they disappeared for FOTJ!! and personally I'm even fine with Ben as a character, but not fine with like Mara said, how they sacrifice others for him. And what in the world is the whole Luke wondering if Ben will be a good grandmaster coming from?? Since when do u get that title just from being born!?!??


According to some of the discussions I'm had on this forum, that's exactly why he should have the title.


As for them taking a step backwards, I completely agree. But if I had to hazzard a guess why, likely the New Jedi Order books didn't sell as well as the books focused on Luke, Leia, and Han. So they figured those were the ones people wanted to read about. I'm not saying I agree with the decision, for from a story telling point of few I completely disagree. But I can see it being the business decision behind it.


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 PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:04 pm Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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Mad Wook wrote:
The novels have gotten pretty weak, especially since it took them the same amount of time to put out a mediocre, 9-book series (FOTJ) as it did to put out an epic, 19-book series (NJO). But the comics are at an all time high. Everything released in May and June has been great, IMO. The cartoon looks great, continuity issues aside. I think Star Wars has its ups and downs like anything and won't be going anywhere anytime soon.


"The cartoon looks great, continuity issues aside."

That is my ONLY issue with the tv show and thus SW as a whole. Those pesky continuity issues. Sure they tend to be minor, but the fact that we have them at all is galling. Worse that the creator of Star Wars disregards the largest part of SW unless he's cannibalizing ideas. Which only turns around and causes more continuity issues.

Don't get me wrong- I love SW, I love GL's creativity too, but there are times where I'm ready for GL to step back and let someone, someone who "loves it ALL" to make the canon decisions. In the recent Insider we even have Dave Filoni flat out telling us that there is 2 universes- something many an EU fan has known, but SW fans as a whole pretend is not the case- we like to pretend it's all one. That GL's doesn't override, but shows us the truth. But to me this is just hurting the franchise as a whole.

You fall in love with SW, and learn that the saga continues- fall for that only to learn that it doesn't quite count. And as far as the guy who started it all seems to be concerned, the EU might as well just be glorified fanfic.... I hate how that line of thought makes me feel.

Worse I hate the divide it causes- by GLs dismissal of the EU fans do the same- now you have this divide where one aspect of Fandom feels another aspect's saga doesn't exist. All because of one individual. To me that's messed up.
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 PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:20 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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illogicalRogue2 wrote:
That is my ONLY issue with the tv show and thus SW as a whole. Those pesky continuity issues. Sure they tend to be minor, but the fact that we have them at all is galling..


Minor? Ha! Some are beyond major but Lucas doesn't give a crap, he tosses in whatever tickles his fancy and fills his wallet further.
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 PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:02 pm Reply with quote  
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  Ultimatedash
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That's what's been bothering me lately as well, if Lucas wants to make changes into how the universe is in his show, great. More power to him. I don't like how the show receives such high priorty canon though. The show isnt a movie, other writers shoudnt have their books invalidated, or be forced to accept Galaxy changing retcons, just because one cartoon has Georges name on it.


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 PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:15 pm Reply with quote  
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  Dancelittleewok
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Continuity isn't up to us. I can complain about it until I'm blue in the face, but the facts aren't going to change. Retcons are inevitable. EU and TCW clashes are inevitable. Fan discussions are academic. Instead of getting frustrated, I'd rather just accept it.
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 PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:39 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Dancelittleewok wrote:
Continuity isn't up to us. I can complain about it until I'm blue in the face, but the facts aren't going to change. Retcons are inevitable. EU and TCW clashes are inevitable. Fan discussions are academic. Instead of getting frustrated, I'd rather just accept it.


I've accepted it, but I'm vocally unhappy with it Wink
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Exactly!
 PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:10 pm Reply with quote  
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  Ultimatedash
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Haha I know, I love star wars enough so I can deal with any major issues, bt sometimes just gotta blow off some steam!


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 PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:25 pm Reply with quote  
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  VileZero
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illogicalRogue2 wrote:

Don't get me wrong- I love SW, I love GL's creativity too, but there are times where I'm ready for GL to step back and let someone, someone who "loves it ALL" to make the canon decisions. In the recent Insider we even have Dave Filoni flat out telling us that there is 2 universes- something many an EU fan has known, but SW fans as a whole pretend is not the case- we like to pretend it's all one. That GL's doesn't override, but shows us the truth. But to me this is just hurting the franchise as a whole.

You fall in love with SW, and learn that the saga continues- fall for that only to learn that it doesn't quite count. And as far as the guy who started it all seems to be concerned, the EU might as well just be glorified fanfic.... I hate how that line of thought makes me feel.

Worse I hate the divide it causes- by GLs dismissal of the EU fans do the same- now you have this divide where one aspect of Fandom feels another aspect's saga doesn't exist. All because of one individual. To me that's messed up.


This is when I pull out the, "Uh guys... this is all fiction" line. I enjoy a good bit of continuity as much as the next person, but breaking continuity and retcons don't really phase me. Because I think retcons can be pretty fun. It's all science-FICTION, though. None of these events have ever happened. I just can't get riled up over people who agree or disagree with what events take place or actually happen - because it's all fake. It's all for our enjoyment. The enjoyment should come from stories and characters, not from paying attention to superfluous details like the length of ships or the dates of events and how everything ties into everything else. We can't even get our OWN history into a neat order like that. Why should the EU be any different?

And I think that people that would completely dismiss the EU as "fanfic" are few and far between. I think the vast majority of us have been raised properly, and know that even if we don't agree with another person's viewpoints, we don't bash them for it.


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 PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:12 am Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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Dancelittleewok wrote:
Continuity isn't up to us. I can complain about it until I'm blue in the face, but the facts aren't going to change. Retcons are inevitable. EU and TCW clashes are inevitable. Fan discussions are academic. Instead of getting frustrated, I'd rather just accept it.


That's not so much my point. The continuity issues are a byproduct of the REAL problem- the problem is 2 universes being forced into one. It's 2 universes when we deal with the EU, but when we deal with GLs SW we're told there is one. And at this point even Filoni is saying there are two. There is a double standard there.

It's like showing us that George isn't even a fan of Star Wars, he's just a fan of story telling. And you can tell stories in ANY medium. But you can't adapt an EU story and keep it, cause THAT is just too hard apparently.

And yes- its a gripe as old as time- I only bring it up cause Filoni's flat out saying we have 2 universes- which I as an EU fan knew already. But now they aren't even pretending it's one? Since when?
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 PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:39 pm Reply with quote  
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  Mad Wook
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Quote:
This is when I pull out the, "Uh guys... this is all fiction" line.


That is absolutely true and I have said the exact same thing recently. But I have also been on the side of being pretty upset. Lucasfilm knows there are us story collectors out here and doesn't care. Continuity errors affect our collections and the way we look at the stories. Our collections that we have spent a lot of money on. A company of people we have helped support for 35 years. We, as a community, don't really amount to squat and never have honestly. Star Wars is, and has always been, for the new fans. If SW was for the "die-hards" then we would get those e-books in our hardcovers on the first release. GL would have put out the "original cuts" on the blu-rays. There would have at least been some apologetic attitude for the continuity errors. But GL's attitude is "this is the way it is, like it or not." And even worse, when the PT was released, it didn't seem all the negative voices got to him as much. Now, in our twitter/FB community, where all opinions can be heard, and the negative ones are always the loudest and most cutting, and GL's daughter is involved and a highly vocal member of this new community, and she has his ear, we have a big mess and and this "fun" is going sour. And now more than ever GL is caring less and less. Continuity is what fired this whole thing up to begin with. Everyone wanted to know what happened before and after. We all wanted to know what happened to Luke after Jedi, if he restarted the Order. Everyone wanted to know if Han and Leia got married and had kids. We wanted to know how Anakin's story actually happened. We wanted to see how the Clone Wars played out. WE asked for this. And WE paid good money for it. Without us, there would have been no Heir to the Empire. There would have been no Phantom Menace. There would be no Clone Wars. We wanted continuity, continuation, closure. And we paid for it. What happened to "the customer is always right"? You obviously can't please all the people, all the time, but you can damn sure try harder than GL has since at least 2008.

But, like you say, it is only a story, fiction. Most of us have bigger lives, I have 2 little children myself, we are in school, we have jobs, we have bigger responsibilities. But Star Wars has become our hobby and our escape and we have collectively funded it over the years to keep it going. We just want George to care again and to have some damn continuity. The reason everything that followed Return of the Jedi has even happened is because we wanted it.


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 PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:54 pm Reply with quote  
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  Mad Wook
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The enjoyment should come from stories and characters, not from paying attention to superfluous details like the length of ships or the dates of events and how everything ties into everything else.

That's the beauty of being a free human, we can decide for ourselves what we derive enjoyment from. Wink How everything ties together is exactly what I liked about it.

And I think that people that would completely dismiss the EU as "fanfic" are few and far between.

That may be true but I think only 1 person has any consequence to what IR2 was saying, George Lucas. He said, "And as far as the guy who started it all seems to be concerned, the EU might as well just be glorified fanfic.... "


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 PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:13 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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Star Wars has become a disjointed (and with the addition of Mortis, I would add fundamentally disjointed) franchise. Lucas doesn't give a rip about the EU and it has basically become "fanfiction" (albeit fanfiction written by professional authors and sold in stores under Lucas's name). My normal reaction would be to give up on the EU and move onto other things. I'm not wasting time on it anymore.

However, I haven't done that. This site is honestly all that's keeping me going. I officially know where "haters"come from: situations like this. I've all but lost interest in the product, but not the fandom.
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 PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:22 pm Reply with quote  
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  DannikJerriko
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Reepicheep wrote:
Star Wars has become a disjointed (and with the addition of Mortis, I would add fundamentally disjointed) franchise. Lucas doesn't give a rip about the EU and it has basically become "fanfiction" (albeit fanfiction written by professional authors and sold in stores under Lucas's name). My normal reaction would be to give up on the EU and move onto other things. I'm not wasting time on it anymore.

However, I haven't done that. This site is honestly all that's keeping me going. I officially know where "haters"come from: situations like this. I've all but lost interest in the product, but not the fandom.


Well said. I thought I was losing interest, but realised that I still cared about the comics. I realised I wasn't losing my interest in SW, just finding my niche; i.e the Clone Wars/Republic comics.

I've said this elsewhere, and I'll say it again; the best thing to come out of Star Wars was the communities, even one big community, and that's my favourite thing. Plus I really like EUC and the people here, and once the Clone Wars Omni's come out, I'll be a lot more into the SWEU content. Then onto Legacy, KoTOR. This is a dip in interest for content, but the feeling of community is as strong as ever Smile
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 PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:43 pm Reply with quote  
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  Werehunter
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There has been Continuity errors since Heir to the Empire came out. When you are dealing with a product line that spans movies, novels, comic books, TV shows, and video games with dozens, if not hundreds, of people working on the story there are bound to be continuity errors. If problems like this bothers you, then you shouldn't read serial fiction. Just as if you are a creator and don't want to risk other people's work changing yours, then you shouldn't work in serial fiction.

Being a fan of several serial fiction series, ranging from novels to comic books, I'm more then willing to overlook issues as long as the end product is good. In fact many of the worse stories comes from trying to fix errors or trying to make everything from various media forms line up correctly.


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