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Should Qui-Gon and Darth Maul have survived Episode I?
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Should Qui-Gon and Darth Maul have survived Episode I?
 PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:15 am Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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Suffering insomnia, I found myself wondering this. One of the weaknesses of the prequels in comparison to the original trilogy is the discontinuity of characters. A major part of the success of the OT was the Big 3. Episode I features Qui-Gon as the protagonist of the story but he dies at the end, with Episode II and III featuring Anakin and Obi-Wan more prominently. Padme's prominence is also less than Leia's.

Keeping Qui-Gon alive isn't going to completely mitigate the inconsistency, nor does it fix what I perceive as Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Padme being overall weaker and less interesting than the Big 3. I think his survival, though, would be beneficial from an Expanded Universe perspective, because he would be available as a character for those types of stories as well as The Clone Wars. His survival also could be written in a way that ensures Obi-Wan is the one who trains Anakin by means of the council purposely snubbing Qui-Gon by assigning Anakin to Obi-Wan, given the earlier situation in which Qui-Gon attempted to train Anakin in defiance of the council by dropping Obi-Wan.

Overall, I think it makes sense that Qui-Gon is killed because he would mostly serve as a distraction from Anakin and Obi-Wan if he featured in the next two movies, unless he was to take Dooku's role, or if used in conjunction with Maul's survival, replaced Dooku as head or a member of the CIS in opposition to the Republic, but not as a Sith. His important to the lore and to bridge from Episode I to Episode IV is also non-existent, so it makes sense that he was killed. It also raises the question of why Lucas went away from Obi-Wan BEING the Qui-Gon character and being JOINED by Qui-Gon after the Tatooine portion of the plot. I am guessing Lucas wanted the stakes to be raised in the lightsaber duel and having a minor character killed was not sufficient.

As for Darth Maul, I think his survival alone suggests that it's recognized that killing him was a mistake so early on. I am speculating that his character is going to be given much more depth than Episode I and associated EU gave him, and that he's going to be more cerebral and powerful than the living weapon he is currently viewed as. If he survived originally, this would have allowed him to replace Dooku as head of the CIS and serve that role, and probably created a much cooler lightsaber battle to open Episode III. Honestly, I really don't understand why Maul was killed off because it's not as though he couldn't have survived and there still have been a triumphant ending in the same sense as the original Star Wars. Darth Vader survived. I think Lucas realized that the lightsaber duel was ultimately inconsequential to the plot of the film and was only important to the participants as a matter of survival, and in order to have all concurrent subplots resolved favorably for the heroes he killed Maul, because Maul's survival along with Qui-Gon's death would have sharply contrasted the destruction of the droid control ship and consequent defeat of the droid army and the capturing of Nute Gunray.

While the lightsaber battle seems to be the highlight of Episode I, I'm thinking that it's ultimately unnecessary to the film, especially since Lucas was deliberately mirroring the original Star Wars. Qui-Gon's duel with Maul on Tatooine mirrors Obi-Wan and Vader on the Death Star as a lightsaber duel halfway through the film, and there wasn't a duel at the climax. The duel in Episode I is also not essential to the plot and could be excised.


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 PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:22 am Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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While the duel with Maul wasn't essential to the story, it's worth noting that the duel is one of the best loved moments of the film. Add to it the fact that Phantom Menace isn't that well liked overall, and you're making a bad movie worse. Remove Jar Jar and you might achieve something worthwhile. Subtract whiny Anakin and you could make the prequels on par with the OT.
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 PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:40 pm Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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I'd argue that the duel was essential. Qui Gon needed to be killed in order for Obi-Wan to become Anakin's master. What a lot of fans don't know is that Qui Gon extracting a promise from Obi-Wan to train Anakin is very significant. A Jedi promise is almost sacred. Having given the promise, Obi-Wan could go against the Council and train Anakin, and the Council could not circumvent it. Qui Gon knew what he was doing when he got Obi-Wan to make that promise.

There is a source for this info but I can't find it right now.
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 PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:15 am Reply with quote  
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  darthrevan1
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Im going to say that technically Maul doesnt die on Naboo. If you watched only the movies he does but in the EU he survived. Hes in the CW series and in a graphic novel he fights Vader who kills him.

Im of the mind that there should never have been a Qui-Gon. Not that he wasnt a great character he was but for me Obi-Wan should have been a jedi and had a padawan who Maul kills not Qui Gon. This way Obi-Wan discovers Anakin, not someone else and takes it upon himself to train Anakin feeling he is The Chosen One.

Although you could argue that he mightnt want to after his last padawn was killed but still.......

A different actor should have played Anakin and Ryan Phillippe should have played the older Anakin.

Jar Jar should never have happened.
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 PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:53 am Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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Their fall was vital to the Will of the Force. Wink
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 PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:34 pm Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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I'm now envisioning the Will of the Force as this hungry entity that wants more Force users to eat. Wasn't enough to get Qui-Gon for the main course, it needed Maul for dessert, but wait! Maul is back! Maybe the Force is hungry for seconds.

Interesting idea about taking Qui-Gon out altogether and having Obi-Wan's apprentice get killed instead. That would ruin the "brothers" aspect between Obi-Wan and Anakin though. I think they should have played up on that a bit more. TCW might be showing the whole brothers relationship, but the movies would have done better if they could have included that in. Jumping from the start of the Clone Wars in Episode II to the end in Episode III leaves a lot of missed time. The OT didn't have very large time gaps, at least not as big as the PT. I wonder if that helped the character side of the story.
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 PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:49 pm Reply with quote  
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  DannikJerriko
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Darth Skuldren wrote:
I'm now envisioning the Will of the Force as this hungry entity that wants more Force users to eat. Wasn't enough to get Qui-Gon for the main course, it needed Maul for dessert, but wait! Maul is back! Maybe the Force is hungry for seconds.


Or it threw Maul back up cos he was too spiky! Razz
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 PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:17 am Reply with quote  
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  darthrevan1
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DannikJerriko wrote:
Darth Skuldren wrote:
I'm now envisioning the Will of the Force as this hungry entity that wants more Force users to eat. Wasn't enough to get Qui-Gon for the main course, it needed Maul for dessert, but wait! Maul is back! Maybe the Force is hungry for seconds.


Or it threw Maul back up cos he was too spiky! Razz


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For me how the Anakin/Obi-wan relationship was portrayed in the prequels was different to what I expected prior to Episode 1.

If you listen to Obi-Wan in the classic trilogy you would expect a happier relationship then the one we got. Anakin seemed to be forced on to him as a Padawan, it wasnt Obi-Wan but Qui-Gon who believed in him while Obi-Wan was extremely sceptical. Leaving out TCW series and focusing on the films there was a lot of arguing with only a few happy moments between them. Anakin was arrogant and annoying. There was a good relationship overall but I wouldnt call them good friends, it was a relationship out of necessity. Obi-Wan was fulfilling a promise not taking it on himself to train Anakin. He was unsure if he was the Chosen one even though on Mustafar he calls him The Chosen One you wonder if he really believed it? He had his doubts.

By the classic trilogy he believed Vader couldnt be saved. There was no mention to Luke that he thought Vader was the chosen one and could be saved, he believed he was more machine then man. Only the love of a son brought him back.

Vader fulfilled the prophecy but Obi-Wan wasnt convinced for the most part.
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 PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:32 am Reply with quote  
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  DannikJerriko
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I think I touched on this in a different thread. I think it was the podrace one. Basically, Qui Gon and Maul did serve a purpose in Ep I, but that was the only place they had a purpose. If they survived Ep I they would have gotten in the way. Obi Wan would become distracted and jealous, and Maul would constantly hinder the Jedi, plus it's not always the way to go to have a recurring villain (Vader and Palpy don't count, they are the reason for everything that happened in all six movies (no, I don't count TCW movie)) who constantly pops up and destroys something, that can get boring and is really only for TV shows Eg TCW (Aurra Sing, Grevous) I don't have a problem with Maul or Qui Gon dying as we have a little thing called the SWEU, where they can sustain themselves as characters.
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 PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:27 am Reply with quote  
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  darthrevan1
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I have no issue with either Maul or Qui-Gon dieing in EP1. Qui-Gon had to in order for Obi-Wan to start training Anakin.

We have had a lot of qui-gon in the EU and Maul has been too.
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 PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:17 pm Reply with quote  
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  Mace Windu
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My only issue with this movie is Anakin was too young in my opinion, a nine year old is just..eh. Make him an early teenager with a more interesting personality and you got a movie.

Better yet, cut out that whole young kid Anakin thing and just have the movie be about his very early training and stuff, I'd prefer that.


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 PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:03 pm Reply with quote  
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  DannikJerriko
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Mace Windu wrote:
My only issue with this movie is Anakin was too young in my opinion, a nine year old is just..eh. Make him an early teenager with a more interesting personality and you got a movie.

Better yet, cut out that whole young kid Anakin thing and just have the movie be about his very early training and stuff, I'd prefer that.


Having Anakin be 13/14 in TPM would make him more of a whiny teenager than during Eps II and III.
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 PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:31 am Reply with quote  
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  Salaris Vorn
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Perhaps they could have solved some of this by making Obi-Wan a freshly minted Knight who is accompanying Qui-Gon (and Qui-Gon's apprentice)? Emphasize the idea of Jedi Generals early on by having Obi-Wan lead the Gungans or the RNSF and have the battle with Qui-Gon, his apprentice and Maul. Kill the apprentice and keep Qui-Gon.

In future movies Qui-Gon could have taken the role of Mace. At any rate I think they should have kept Qui-Gon in a role where he acts as mentor to Obi-Wan in the PT the way Obi-Wan is Luke's mentor in the OT.
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 PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:56 am Reply with quote  
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  Darth Bane
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Gui-Gon definitely should have survived and Darth Maul did survive.
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 PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:26 am Reply with quote  
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  Life Is The Path
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I feel that Qui Gon should have died (I got my wish! Though give it time), and that Maul should have kept on spinning right into his grave.
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