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Reboot?
Yes
12%
 12%  [ 2 ]
No
87%
 87%  [ 14 ]
Total Votes : 16

 PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:59 pm Reply with quote  
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  chewbacca.89
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I can see valid points for each side. I'm not %100 one way or the other. Just thought it was an interesting thought.

As for the profit topic its kind of a catch 22. While many dislike TCW, they generate money. Without that profit we probably not see as many EU books. Or am I wrong? Could the EU books alone bring in enough money to support the industry? I'm not sure.
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 PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:01 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Profit simply for profit is pointless. If that's the only reason for TCW to continue then ALL it is about is stuffing Lucas's pockets. The show could be good, original, AND profitable, there's no reason it can't. They just don't want to come up with anything that is creatively new or make it work with canon at all. They cherry pick stories from the comics and condense them into contrived, emotionless little plots or they look at action figure sales and see what would make the most money to include character-wise. And then of course there's Jar-Jar. And the one time they tried something new creatively it was Mortis and it made the Chosen One prophecy pointless and stupid, not to mention it was an embarrassment.
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 PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:48 pm Reply with quote  
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  Baloo
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Please no. Alternate universes is what has made superhero comics and their ilk basically unreadable in today's world. When you crack open that bag, it leaves possibilities for really, really shitty storylines.

Not to say Star Wars hasn't had them under Del Ray...but that's a different discussion altogether. A reboot would make everything even worse!

And to be honest, you can still pack in a TON of things in the Star Wars universe. It's so vast that hell, you could still pack in some adventures of younger Han, Luke, and Leia. Or even write books about minor characters like they used to under Bantam-Spectra. I miss the old "Tales Of" anthologies and books like the Rogue Squadron series. It was a breath of fresh air to the whole canon. Now it seems like the focus is "How far into the Star Wars future can we really get? How many minor characters can we kill off for shock value?"

Okay, with that rant being said, NO to a Reboot.


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 PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:00 am Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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Baloo wrote:
Please no. Alternate universes is what has made superhero comics and their ilk basically unreadable in today's world. When you crack open that bag, it leaves possibilities for really, really shitty storylines.

I disagree- some real good stories have come from Marvel's AU's. Heck their Ultimate line is starting to rival the main one for popularity. Shibby stories can and do happen all the time. If anything the potential for stories in an AU are almost endless.

Baloo wrote:

Not to say Star Wars hasn't had them under Del Ray...but that's a different discussion altogether. A reboot would make everything even worse!




As far as I recall- we've had the one Infinities series and that is it.

But I fail to see how it would make it worse? BSG got BETTER IMO with it's re-imagining.


Let's take this new Dark Horse "Star Wars" comic series for instant- if they decided to make it a reboot series- it just runs- if there is a conflict with existing continuity- no problem- it's not a part of that universe (no different then GL sees the EU now)

I think losing the illusion would be a good thing.


Baloo wrote:

And to be honest, you can still pack in a TON of things in the Star Wars universe. It's so vast that hell, you could still pack in some adventures of younger Han, Luke, and Leia. "



Not between episodes 4 and 5... that era is already pretty well mapped out. That's nto to say there aren't some places still where a story could be told. But heck I'm open to redoing some older stories- Dark Empire- reimagined. I'd dig it.
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 PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:30 am Reply with quote  
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  Mad Wook
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I still think making things fit in continuity is what sets SW apart. Most of the authors care and try to make it work. I wouldn't mind some more Infinities stories, but I still want the EU to stay cohesive. And if we lose the illusion, we might lose the interest. Just my opinion.

Also, the timeline is only super full in that first year after ANH. The next 2 years before Empire are still relatively bare.

As far as Dark Empire being reimagined, I think a novel version would be a great read if done by someone with extensive EU knowledge like Luceno. They could fill out the plot, give us more behind the scenes with Luke's Sith training, mature the story up a little, start the story a little earlier so we see Palpatine reveal himself to his followers and the Imp civil war on Coruscant, and make a whole slew of modern EU references so as to make it more connected with the rest and make little fanboys like me giggle.


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 PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:21 pm Reply with quote  
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  Baloo
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illogicalRogue2 wrote:

I disagree- some real good stories have come from Marvel's AU's. Heck their Ultimate line is starting to rival the main one for popularity. Shibby stories can and do happen all the time. If anything the potential for stories in an AU are almost endless.


Eh, perhaps. But my bigger point was that it makes things very confusing. What becomes the true canon then? What is the true storyline of Star Wars? I think it just makes things utterly confusing. Why do we have to reboot? What is the point? So we can see the original trilogy be ruined even more by trying to change characterizations and plotlines around? It reminds me of what Dark Empire tried to do. What If? Luke went to the Dark side? What if Palpatine came back from the dead? I personally wouldn't like to see that happen again.

illogicalRogue2 wrote:
As far as I recall- we've had the one Infinities series and that is it.


And the stories were frankly terrible. Do we really need another Infinities series? Razz

illogicalRogue2 wrote:
But I fail to see how it would make it worse? BSG got BETTER IMO with it's re-imagining.


Battlestar Galactica doesn't hold a candle to Star Wars, I'm sorry. Star Wars is an epic saga, BSG is not. Not every sci-fi series is directly comparable.

illogicalRogue2 wrote:
Let's take this new Dark Horse "Star Wars" comic series for instant- if they decided to make it a reboot series- it just runs- if there is a conflict with existing continuity- no problem- it's not a part of that universe (no different then GL sees the EU now)

I think losing the illusion would be a good thing.


But then you always upset the fans when you try to mess around with the canon with retcons and whatnot. Fans who enjoyed the stories will be annoyed, and fans who hated them will wish they never existed. A blemish on an otherwise excellent EU. There's a reason why Star Wars has a keeper of the Holocron in the sense, someone who keeps track of all the EU. That's why there's such meticulous detail put into the books, and why Lucas has to approve everything. You can't just say "Oh I think I'll write a book about Star Wars and if it doesn't follow in with the canon, we can just say it was never part of it in the first place."


illogicalRogue2 wrote:
Not between episodes 4 and 5... that era is already pretty well mapped out. That's nto to say there aren't some places still where a story could be told. But heck I'm open to redoing some older stories- Dark Empire- reimagined. I'd dig it.


I disagree. There's plenty of room to work with before Episode IV (Especially with Han and Lando) and during/after Empire. Plus, I mean you can still fit in small stories, it's not like there are set dates for when all of these things occurred. It's a more general, event-based timeline.


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 PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:43 am Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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Baloo wrote:
illogicalRogue2 wrote:

I disagree- some real good stories have come from Marvel's AU's. Heck their Ultimate line is starting to rival the main one for popularity. Shibby stories can and do happen all the time. If anything the potential for stories in an AU are almost endless.


Eh, perhaps. But my bigger point was that it makes things very confusing.


See and I again disagree- it'd make things less confusing for me. I'd know that when things don't fit- it's do to my reading something that's meant to go with another universe- Kind of how it is now when I am reading the EU and it doesn't line up with the films. Only now I won't have to pretend that it wasn't a part until a change knocked it from canon. (which is how it works now)

Baloo wrote:
What becomes the true canon then?

The films would REMAIN canon. But those who enjoyed the EU before the split would now have it's own official canon. An EU-canon. It'd need not take things from the tv series and run with it just because some new element was introduced. (Mortis/Apocalypse)

Baloo wrote:
What is the true storyline of Star Wars?

Again- the "True story" would be the films and TCW tv show.

Baloo wrote:
I think it just makes things utterly confusing. Why do we have to reboot? What is the point?


See if one's not an EU fan there would feel like no reason. But long time EU fans have watched elements of stories be knocked out of canon for years. The point would be to end the need to retcon one for the sake of the other. You could have BOTH.


Baloo wrote:
So we can see the original trilogy be ruined even more by trying to change characterizations and plotlines around?

No... we're not talking rebooting the films- not reinventing the films- we would leave the films as they are. That part remains the same.

Baloo wrote:
It reminds me of what Dark Empire tried to do. What If? Luke went to the Dark side? What if Palpatine came back from the dead? I personally wouldn't like to see that happen again.


Tried?! You mean DID. This is part of my point- Dark Empire HAPPENED. Maybe not for Film only fans. Hence THOSE FANS might enjoy keeping Dark Empire out of THEIR CANON. But those who were enjoying the EU (the C-level canon story) can still enjoy theirs too without fear of the "what next George" effect.

Baloo wrote:
illogicalRogue2 wrote:
As far as I recall- we've had the one Infinities series and that is it.


And the stories were frankly terrible. Do we really need another Infinities series? Razz


We'll have to agree to disagree. I enjoyed them. In fact my biggest issue with them was that they didn't continue from one into the other but that they were each treated like it's own AU. But do we "need" it- that to is a difference of opinions.

Baloo wrote:
illogicalRogue2 wrote:
But I fail to see how it would make it worse? BSG got BETTER IMO with it's re-imagining.


Battlestar Galactica doesn't hold a candle to Star Wars, I'm sorry. Star Wars is an epic saga, BSG is not. Not every sci-fi series is directly comparable.


Baloo- I wasn't comparing BSG to SW, not even in the slightest. What I meant was that the REINVENTING of BSG was a GOOD thing for that franchise. That's all. In that case the 2 sci-fi series are comparable. As in I was comparing the premise of a reinventing for an AU.

Baloo wrote:
illogicalRogue2 wrote:
Let's take this new Dark Horse "Star Wars" comic series for instant- if they decided to make it a reboot series- it just runs- if there is a conflict with existing continuity- no problem- it's not a part of that universe (no different then GL sees the EU now)

I think losing the illusion would be a good thing.


But then you always upset the fans when you try to mess around with the canon with retcons and whatnot. Fans who enjoyed the stories will be annoyed, and fans who hated them will wish they never existed. A blemish on an otherwise excellent EU. There's a reason why Star Wars has a keeper of the Holocron in the sense, someone who keeps track of all the EU. That's why there's such meticulous detail put into the books, and why Lucas has to approve everything. You can't just say "Oh I think I'll write a book about Star Wars and if it doesn't follow in with the canon, we can just say it was never part of it in the first place.


The fans are ALWAYS upset- they won't ever please them all. So for me that point holds no water. It wouldn't be messing with what came before- that all would still exist. Just in it's own AU. But the reality is that Lucas doesn't approve everything. That is a huge misconception amongst the fans. But your example is how they treat parts of current EU works when an Author goes off and does their own thing.


Baloo wrote:
illogicalRogue2 wrote:
Not between episodes 4 and 5... that era is already pretty well mapped out. That's nto to say there aren't some places still where a story could be told. But heck I'm open to redoing some older stories- Dark Empire- reimagined. I'd dig it.


I disagree. There's plenty of room to work with before Episode IV (Especially with Han and Lando) and during/after Empire. Plus, I mean you can still fit in small stories, it's not like there are set dates for when all of these things occurred. It's a more general, event-based timeline.


Yes- the last 2 years are pretty wide open- but this new series I am referring to isn't set in THAT end- it's set in the one that SO MANY have already chronicled. It's picking up right at ANH- well there have already been stories told set there. So unless we're going to just say "Oh I think we should write a comic book series about the big 3 set right after ANH and if it doesn't follow canon, we can just say the older stuff was never part of it in the first place." Oh wait- that IS the current practice.... Which is why I get so frustrated.

Now it'd be different if this new Star Wars comic was planning on starting at ANH- then jumping PAST the previously told stores to parts of that time frame NOT already chock full of told tales. But they won't do that.

But honestly- thanks Baloo, it's been fun hashing out my thoughts on this. Hope you're night/ day goes well- I look forward to continuing the chat!
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 PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:21 pm Reply with quote  
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  Dancelittleewok
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From his StarWars.com blog:

Leland Chee wrote:
In the end, my ongoing vision is that as long as there’s the Holocron, Star Wars will not reboot.


So I guess that settles that, right?
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 PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:41 pm Reply with quote  
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  Mad Wook
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I would say that it's ultimately not up to him.

It's a nice sentiment though.


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 PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:09 pm Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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Dancelittleewok wrote:
From his StarWars.com blog:

Leland Chee wrote:
In the end, my ongoing vision is that as long as there’s the Holocron, Star Wars will not reboot.


So I guess that settles that, right?


No- he's always said this. This statement isn't that new- just worded differently Wink
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 PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:02 am Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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Still, the fact that they poured so much effort into it and are employing someone to enforce it makes me think a reboot is still highly unlikely.
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 PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:04 pm Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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Darth Skuldren wrote:
Still, the fact that they poured so much effort into it and are employing someone to enforce it makes me think a reboot is still highly unlikely.



IDK perhaps that's what irks me the most- all that work, a guy paid to make sense of it; all backed by a motto of "to hell with what came before"
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 PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:14 am Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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What are all these old tales set in the post ANH period? I always hear them referred to as a reason additional stories would be problematic, but all I can think of are the SWG MMO and Marvel comics, and only a handful of the latter are actually C-canon.
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 PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:43 am Reply with quote  
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  Taral-DLOS
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DarthMRN wrote:
What are all these old tales set in the post ANH period? I always hear them referred to as a reason additional stories would be problematic, but all I can think of are the SWG MMO and Marvel comics, and only a handful of the latter are actually C-canon.


There's also the Rebel Force kids books, the Star Wars Missions kids books, the newstrip comics, numerous video games (or video game levels), Allegiance, Choices of One, most issues of Empire and all issues of Rebellion, and several old comics like River of Chaos, Shadow Stalker, and Vader's Quest. All of which take place within 6 months or so of ANH.

And I think most of the Marvel comics are C-canon now. Or, at worst, are reasonable S-Canon.
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 PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:11 pm Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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I thought the problem was the involvement of the big three, and I don't think they feature in nearly every one of those. Surely the argument can't be that new stories shouldn't be introduced in that timeframe simply because it has been done before?

And I can off hand not think of any C-canon games set at the time. Reasonable S-canon is a perfect excuse to introduce more stuff in that time-period.

That said, I won't defend the core choice of actually doing so, when from what I hear, the period between ESB and RotJ is pretty barren by comparison. That sort of idol-worship towards the first Star Wars movie doesn't sit right with me from a continuity-perspective.
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