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Colorado Theater Shooting
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 PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:57 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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I'm going to be seeing TDKR soon and I'm not sure what it's going to be like. I'm pretty good at getting absorbed in a story, so I don't think it will be on my mind, but who knows?

Is there any word on why he picked this movie?
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 PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:22 pm Reply with quote  
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  DannikJerriko
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I didn't have time to elaborate my thoughts on this earlier;

It's very hard to discuss this kind of thing, for governments and media, because publicity is all these people (the gunmen) want. So talking about them could very well lead to more like them, if people realise how and what to do.

But at the same time, it's a massive political issue, and the public does need to know about the causes and the consequences of such happenings. If a presidential candidate chooses a lockdown on gun crime as their running point, the people need to know about this kind of thing. Even if it's warning people what they should be noticing in people's behaviour etc or if there's going to be a vote surrounding it, people need to know the facts.

Guns need to stop being so openly available.

My thoughts genuinely go out to all close to those harmed by the event.
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 PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:50 pm Reply with quote  
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  Old Master Ben
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It was odd seeing TDKR on Saturday. Like Skuldren said, you suddenly feel exposed and you're actually thinking about things like "can I get to the ground in time?" It's wide open and I can't imagine how terrifying that must have been. And maybe I was the only one doing this, but whenever someone would walk around at the front of the theater (either to find a seat or cross to the other side), I couldn't help watching them the whole time. The movie was good enough to make me forget, especially near the end, but the whole experience was very different and slightly unnerving at the start.


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 PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:17 am Reply with quote  
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  VileZero
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I saw TDKR less than 24 hours after the shooting, and never thought about a shooting happening at my theater. It was a tragic, fluke event. Why even worry about something like it happening? It either will, or it won't.

Worrying about going to the movie theater and encountering a shooter is as pointless as worrying about flying on a plane and having it taken over by terrorists or attending a public school and having a crazy student (or two) shooting up the staff and students.


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 PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:57 am Reply with quote  
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  Life Is The Path
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http://themonkeycage.org/blog/2012/07/21/the-declining-culture-of-guns-and-violence-in-the-united-states/
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 PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:47 am Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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Interesting article, Life. I for one am a pro-gun person. I believe and support the 2nd amendment. Shootings like this provoke a lot of movement by the anti-gun groups. It's a knee jerk reaction. Political motivations aside, I understand the desire to solve these shooting sprees by either making guns harder to acquire or by getting rid of them altogether.

However, there's a couple things to consider. In this specific case we have an individual who was very intelligent. He didn't just use guns to attack people. he used tear gas (possibly home made? I haven't hear anyone mention where he got the tear gas from), and rigged his apartment with explosives. If this guy couldn't have gotten a hold of some guns, we must ask ourselves how likely it would have been that he would have simply used a bomb instead to inflict damage?

Another aspect is one people on the left will not want to hear. It's a very hard right approach, but there's some truth to it. If you were a gunmen and were going to attack a theater, would you attack the theater filled with unarmed people or the one full of armed people? I've heard people say "an armed society is a polite society." I know, some people are very scared of the thought of everyone having a gun. But that doesn't change that fact that there's some truth to the statements.

As viable a solution as anti-gun laws might be, pro-gun gun laws are just as viable. There isn't just one solution, and I think people should consider that.

Of course I'm also a big believer in moderation. Taking the extreme solution in either direction would be the wrong choice.
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 PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:27 pm Reply with quote  
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  Salaris Vorn
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Darth Skuldren wrote:
If you were a gunmen and were going to attack a theater, would you attack the theater filled with unarmed people or the one full of armed people?


From what I understand gunmen usually suicide and this guy was unique in that he didn't take his life. So honestly I would imagine most gunmen would do it anyway since they aren't expecting to come out alive.

EDIT: People carrying guns is only a deterant when the gunman doesn't want to die. If the gunman expects to/wants to die or doesn't care if they die everyone in the theater could carry military issue M-16s and the gunman would still strike because they have no fear of death. Worst case scenario if everyone carried guns is gunmen specifically target groups of people who they know won't be armed which means people who can't use firearms (elderly for example) or don't want to have firearms live in daily fear knowing that if a gunman strikes it will be against them and only them. The majority gains safety by choosing to make a minority of people the sacraficial lambs.

I've also heard it pointed out that the casualties could have been even greater since theater goers might have ended up shooting each other because they mistook someone for the shooter. In this case I think even more people would have been killed or wounded since the tear gas, dark lighting, and general confusion would have made it difficult to impossible to tell who was a "bad guy" and who was a "good guy." Cynical maybe but I have zero faith in the ability of some stranger next to me not to shoot innocent people because they mistook them for the gunman in that kind of scenario.


To be honest if I was a gunman I would find a theater full of people carrying guns even more appealing since a clever attack where you create a cross fire could get your victims to shoot each other.
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 PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:11 pm Reply with quote  
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  DannikJerriko
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If everyone was carrying guns, how are you supposed to know, in a dark theatre, whether the person who stands up next to you is partners with the bad guy, or shooting at the bad guy... Just a thought
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 PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:22 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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When I saw TDKR this guy from the theatre staff walked down the aisles during the trailers, shining a flashlight into the seats.
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 PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:30 am Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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Nice points, Salaris. I hadn't considered those.

I would argue though that most gunmen aren't so much suicidal as they are looking for victims to prey upon. You don't hear of gunmen storming police headquarters cause they're looking to die. Instead they target large groups of civilians. The suicidal ones die when the cops arrive. I'm not sure what the psychology there is. Perhaps some urge to cause a lot of pain, and then the urge to just end it all.

But the comments on the theater being dark and multiple people having guns leading to great confusion, that is definitely spot on.
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 PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:13 pm Reply with quote  
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  Salaris Vorn
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Darth Skuldren wrote:
Nice points, Salaris. I hadn't considered those.

I would argue though that most gunmen aren't so much suicidal as they are looking for victims to prey upon. You don't hear of gunmen storming police headquarters cause they're looking to die.


I have heard of a thing called "police assisted suicide" where someone basically creates a situation where the police must kill them. I have no idea how large a percentage these people are but it would be interesting if someone did a study to find out whether you could have an increase in "assisted suicides" by people attempting to take advantage of more armed people (especially since a civilian might be quicker to pull the trigger than a police officer who could loose their job for being trigger happy). I'm not saying this as an argument for or against carrying guns and this is more just a stream of conciousness idea sparked by what you said.

I will be interested to read a shrink's analysis of this shooter as it might be quite revealing into the mindset of gunmen.
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