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Four Modern Worldviews

 
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Four Modern Worldviews
 PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:09 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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I may regret this, but here's my attempt to revive the Meditation Grove.

So today I was watching a video by user ContraPoints titled "Four Worldviews Today". He was talking about what he saw as the four major worldviews of the modern world: Conservativism, Liberalism, Radicalism, and Nihilism.

Conservativism basically emulates tradition (often the Middle Ages serve as the ideal) and sees things like the Enlightenment, the feminist movement etc. as steps down and not up. They think we need to jettison much of newer thinking and go back to the way things were. Think the Republicans.

Liberalism views the world as slowly but surely becoming a better place. Knowledge increases over time and science/technology will continue to make our world more connected and better informed/more tolerant. Think the Democrats.

Radicalism thinks the whole system needs to be pretty much scrapped and we need a fresh start. The world is in bad need of political reform and this reform is not only possible it is necessary for making the world a better place.

Nihilism gives up on the whole thing. Humanity is stuck in its mess and the world will never become a better place. The world is and has always been one seriously screwed up place. Everything is pointless and meaningless.

You can watch the video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PbgjNBodcc&feature=plcp

I'll just repost what I wrote in the comments:
I wouldn't place myself in any of the four categories. I think the Middle Ages is the most underrated and misunderstood period in history. That said, I don't think we should march back towards Medieval ideaology because they got a lot of things wrong. I'm also not a liberal, because I don't view history as one long uphill battle and that newer is always better. I view history as a collection of various periods, all subject to their own limited knowledge and prejudices (including our own). I used to be a radical, but I know have not nearly enough faith in humanity or politics to believe humanity can ever bring about the utopic ideals we have in our head. However, I'm not a complete nihilist - only as far as government is concerned (i.e. I'm not a nihilst concerning life in general or ultimate reality). I guess the best way to classify me would be by my religion (Christianity) (i.e. I have no faith in humanity, but choose to put my faith in God).

Which category do you belong in (if any)? Keep in mind that it's okay to have differences in opinion and that this doesn't have to be a battle of ideologies so much as a sharing of ideas.
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 PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:20 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Honestly I can say that the other 3 views listed made me a nihilist.

When looking at the parties (democrats, republicans, I'm not capitalizing either, they don't deserve it) we see the loudest making the majority despite the fact that they're a smaller number. I lean more right politically but I encouraging equality and marital rights for homosexual people and non-white Americans so its an odd view. But the fact that no one wants to play together or look for any middle ground from ANY of the other 3 options my ultimate conclusion is that humanity is eventually screwed. We advance technologically, but the technology suddenly becomes about social status and making life require less work to live. Meanwhile we have those who don't want to move on into the modern world and we have people who stick to the past not only in that way but in a social context as well, persecuting people of different beliefs and gender.

My name is Clint. I believe in God, but am unsure of what I believe about the deity. I lean right but want my non-white or gay friends to live lives that are equal to those in power, and any woman who would want to take orders and live her life just cooking and cleaning isn't for me. But the fact that my personal beliefs are in a minority makes no difference because we're not encouraged to get along in the world, we're encouraged to force our beliefs on others so nothing happens to move forward at all. The gap just keeps widening and the things that could actually help aren't being done or are being looked at as "part of the problem" so I, Clint, am a nihilist.
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 PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:11 pm Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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The descriptions are a little wonky, but the categories themselves aren't too bad as far as a generalized socio/economic philosophy, but I don't think that nihilism belongs on this list. It's a different kind of concept.

I think for this purpose maybe Apathetic would be a better viewpoint.

I was just talking about another categorization of the four groups today that is more vague but pretty accurate for anyone to fall into situationally, from Harris' Transactional Anlysis model.

1. I'm Ok, You're OK
2. I'm not OK, you're not OK
3. I'm Ok, you're not OK
4. I'm not Ok, You're OK
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 PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 2:09 am Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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^Ha! I like that
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 PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:00 am Reply with quote  
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  Life Is The Path
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Well, they're generalisations, so they can only apply so far, and even then they can overlap. A big part of liberalism is to reform outdated ideals and laws. There's also a certain amount of conservatism in liberalism - it's merely a difference in approach. Conservatism is cutting away the bad bits, leaving only the good bits (subjective), liberalism is also about cutting away the bad bits, but replacing it with, and bolstering, the good bits (again, subjective).

As I'm sure you know, I'd consider myself a liberal, in this sense - but I don't agree that new is always better. It's merely that, I feel, we shouldn't maintain old ideals for the sake of tradition, etc., but rather form new ideals based on new evidence and a great deal of deliberation and examination.

Also, you might want to try out the Political Compass: http://www.politicalcompass.org/.
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 PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:45 am Reply with quote  
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  Taral-DLOS
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I'm reminded of Chris Rock's bit about politics. Namely, when asked whether he's conservative or liberal, he'd reply something about being a Human Being and therefore having multiple views.

"There are things I'm conservative about, and things I'm liberal about. Crime, I'm conservative. Prostitution, I'm liberal!" *cue laugh*
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 PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:23 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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Dog-Poop_Walker wrote:
The descriptions are a little wonky, but the categories themselves aren't too bad as far as a generalized socio/economic philosophy, but I don't think that nihilism belongs on this list. It's a different kind of concept.

His categories, not mine. He is a philosophy major though fyi.

It seems to be philosophies about the fate of mankind left to their own devices. I would consider my worldview downright rosy in some respects, but I think humanity would inevitably crash and burn without any outside influences. So, yeah, I would definitely not call myself a full-fledged nihilist, but out of these four options, it describes me the best.
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Doubt not, Reepicheep,
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 PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:46 pm Reply with quote  
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  Hogy
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Reepicheep wrote:
Dog-Poop_Walker wrote:
The descriptions are a little wonky, but the categories themselves aren't too bad as far as a generalized socio/economic philosophy, but I don't think that nihilism belongs on this list. It's a different kind of concept.

His categories, not mine. He is a philosophy major though fyi.


A philosophy major should know better, than to put nihilism (even if only to name a categorie) in this contrast. I prefere Dog-Poops apathetic. Razz

I've just deleted a long, boring, to much of a philosophical wall of text, that took me an hour and a half to write (I wasn't happy with it and it was far from completed), to bring you this.

By ContraPoints definition of Worldviews: Conservativists, liberalists, radicalists and above all nihilists have made me a nihilist. But (tiny bit) more of a "don't give a kark" than a "just no hope" nihilist. There is a difference.

And I did Lifes Political Compass:
Economic Left/Right: -5.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.10

Guess I'm a Commie or Gandhi (by choosing nihilism this is imposible).

But than again, unlike most, I distinguish the difference betwen theoretical and actual politology.


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 PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:40 pm Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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I took that Political Compass test, but I didn't like how it framed the statements in leading ways that I don't think represented my views.

I remember one question that was something like "If Globalization is inevitable, it should serve people and society rather than business." and you agree or disagree.

If you agree you are saying that Globalization should serve society. If you disagree you are saying that it should serve business. But what if you think it should serve both things equally, or you are against Globalization no matter who it serves?

There were several other statements that were "if this, than that" establishing a correlation between the two, when I agreed with one part but not the other.

I too didn't like that you basically had to choose between every answer labeling you either a Freemarket Capitalist or a Communist. If I was a genyouwine Facist it would probably lump me with Karl Marx because I'd have to disagree with all the statements about the Freemarket.
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They have taken the hearts and minds of our leaders. They have recruited the rich and the powerful, and they have blinded us to the truth! Our human spirit is corrupted. Why do we worship greed? Because, outside the limit of our sight, feeding off us, perched on top of us from birth to death are OUR OWNERS. They have us! They control us! They are our masters! Wake up! They’re all about you, all around you!


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 PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:07 pm Reply with quote  
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  Jedi Joe
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Dog-Poop_Walker wrote:
I took that Political Compass test, but I didn't like how it framed the statements in leading ways that I don't think represented my views.

I remember one question that was something like "If Globalization is inevitable, it should serve people and society rather than business." and you agree or disagree.

If you agree you are saying that Globalization should serve society. If you disagree you are saying that it should serve business. But what if you think it should serve both things equally, or you are against Globalization no matter who it serves?

There were several other statements that were "if this, than that" establishing a correlation between the two, when I agreed with one part but not the other.

I too didn't like that you basically had to choose between every answer labeling you either a Freemarket Capitalist or a Communist. If I was a genyouwine Facist it would probably lump me with Karl Marx because I'd have to disagree with all the statements about the Freemarket.


I agree. I think there there should have been an option for a neutral answer.
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