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 PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:00 pm Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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I'm looking forward to this series. I've seen what Christie Golden can do outside of Star Wars when doing books on her own, and I'd like to see what she can do in Star Wars when handling a series by herself. They did mention at the Del Rey panel at CVI that Jag and Jaina will both be in the series. From the cover art, it looks like we'll be seeing the Sith, too.
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 PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:32 pm Reply with quote  
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  GrandMaster
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Reepicheep wrote:
I've never actually read the book where Luke gave Jaina the title "Sword of the Jedi" so I've always been fuzzy on what being the "Sword of the Jedi" means.


I have read the book (Destiny's Way) and I'm still fuzzy on what it means, so you're not alone.
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 PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:38 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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^ That's what I thought.
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 PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:53 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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GrandMaster wrote:
Reepicheep wrote:
I've never actually read the book where Luke gave Jaina the title "Sword of the Jedi" so I've always been fuzzy on what being the "Sword of the Jedi" means.


I have read the book (Destiny's Way) and I'm still fuzzy on what it means, so you're not alone.


It means whatever the author's currently need it to mean. In NJO it meant that she was the warrior manifestation of the new generation of Jedi, leaving Jacen to be the metaphysical manifestation. In LotF they re-tooled it to mean that she was destined from way back when to kill her brother after some pointless training with Fett. In FotJ it once again meant that she is the ultimate warrior but this time it was at the forefront of yet another "biggest threat to the galaxy yet". I'm just hoping this series solidifies something in a way that they can't re-tool it again, because I've grown beyond tired of that title for her. Its been overwritten so many times and its been a pain and something that they clearly had no real plan for, so I'm kind of burnt out on it.
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 PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:40 pm Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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I just look forward to when they stop writing Jaina like a teenager. She's almost 40 years old.
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 PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:53 pm Reply with quote  
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  Werehunter
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Reepicheep wrote:

I've never actually read the book where Luke gave Jaina the title "Sword of the Jedi" so I've always been fuzzy on what being the "Sword of the Jedi" means.


Actually it was left fuzzy in the book. Even Luke didn't know what it meant. It happened during a knighting ceremony the New Republic convinced Luke to do for those who went on the mission in the Star by Star book. Luke was privately speaking to each as they were knighted, but when he got to Jania he named her the Sword of the Jedi and didn't even realize what he was doing till after it happened. They played it up as the Force spoke through Luke, or something like that.

Basically, it was saying she would always be on the front line of the conflicts with Jedi Order battled. And that while she might give up what she loved, she did it so others did not.


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 PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:14 pm Reply with quote  
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  Darth_Henning
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Caedus_16 wrote:
It means whatever the author's currently need it to mean. In NJO it meant that she was the warrior manifestation of the new generation of Jedi, leaving Jacen to be the metaphysical manifestation.


So NJO = order's warrior made manifest (to defeat the vong)

Caedus_16 wrote:
In LotF they re-tooled it to mean that she was destined from way back when to kill her brother after some pointless training with Fett.


LOTF = order's warrior made manifest (to defeat Caedus)

Caedus_16 wrote:
In FotJ it once again meant that she is the ultimate warrior but this time it was at the forefront of yet another "biggest threat to the galaxy yet".


FOTJ = order's warrior made manifest (to defeat abeloth/sith)

Caedus_16 wrote:
I'm just hoping this series solidifies something in a way that they can't re-tool it again, because I've grown beyond tired of that title for her. Its been overwritten so many times and its been a pain and something that they clearly had no real plan for, so I'm kind of burnt out on it.


I'd say that that's actually a pretty consistent characterization of what the role is...


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 PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:35 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Darth_Henning wrote:
Caedus_16 wrote:
It means whatever the author's currently need it to mean. In NJO it meant that she was the warrior manifestation of the new generation of Jedi, leaving Jacen to be the metaphysical manifestation.


So NJO = order's warrior made manifest (to defeat the vong)

Caedus_16 wrote:
In LotF they re-tooled it to mean that she was destined from way back when to kill her brother after some pointless training with Fett.


LOTF = order's warrior made manifest (to defeat Caedus)

Caedus_16 wrote:
In FotJ it once again meant that she is the ultimate warrior but this time it was at the forefront of yet another "biggest threat to the galaxy yet".


FOTJ = order's warrior made manifest (to defeat abeloth/sith)

Caedus_16 wrote:
I'm just hoping this series solidifies something in a way that they can't re-tool it again, because I've grown beyond tired of that title for her. Its been overwritten so many times and its been a pain and something that they clearly had no real plan for, so I'm kind of burnt out on it.


I'd say that that's actually a pretty consistent characterization of what the role is...


That's all fine and good, but in LotF they basically made it so that the prophecy specifically referred to her being the sword to smite her brother, Caedus. They keep making it refer to the story at hand, rather than an overall warrior made manifest. Believe me, I'd prefer the consistency you see, but each story its referred to something different and they state that its for that specific situation and I just grow tired of them saying "oh wait, THIS is what that prophecy meant, not the situation before!"
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 PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:43 pm Reply with quote  
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  Darth_Henning
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Caedus_16 wrote:


That's all fine and good, but in LotF they basically made it so that the prophecy specifically referred to her being the sword to smite her brother, Caedus. They keep making it refer to the story at hand, rather than an overall warrior made manifest. Believe me, I'd prefer the consistency you see, but each story its referred to something different and they state that its for that specific situation and I just grow tired of them saying "oh wait, THIS is what that prophecy meant, not the situation before!"


Much like real life, any prophecy will be interpreted however it applies to the current situation. So long as its in-character/in-universe interpretation (which I believe it has been), then it makes sense.

Much like the Sith'ari could be interpreted to be either Bane or Sideous.


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 PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:00 am Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Darth_Henning wrote:
Caedus_16 wrote:


That's all fine and good, but in LotF they basically made it so that the prophecy specifically referred to her being the sword to smite her brother, Caedus. They keep making it refer to the story at hand, rather than an overall warrior made manifest. Believe me, I'd prefer the consistency you see, but each story its referred to something different and they state that its for that specific situation and I just grow tired of them saying "oh wait, THIS is what that prophecy meant, not the situation before!"


Much like real life, any prophecy will be interpreted however it applies to the current situation. So long as its in-character/in-universe interpretation (which I believe it has been), then it makes sense.

Much like the Sith'ari could be interpreted to be either Bane or Sideous.


Or the Chosen One could mean Anakin kills Palpatine or that he's supposed to have kept himself on Mortis...oh wait, Lucas cleared that one up...

My point is that it feels pointless to have made the stupid prophecy in the first place if they're just going to continue changing it. Its like they can't move on and they never found a reason for it so they're trying to shoe-horn it into every story. Its been the focus of the climax of NJO, of LotF, and of FotJ and now its got a whole trilogy named after it. At this point can they not just let it die and come up with something new? They've milked this stupid thing for over ten years and its meant everything it possibly can thus far. I've grown bored with it and its a poorly conceived plot point that they keep using because frankly it sounds like they can't come up with anything better to do with Jaina. Its just one more of those SW plot things that tells me they're out of ideas and its one of the reasons I'm considering not wasting money on anything else. If I hear that this defines it and ends this Sword of the Jedi nonsense once and for all I'll be interested, but they've promised that before and it hasn't meant a darn thing so I'm out of reasons to care about Jaina or her bloody prophecy.

And most prophecies are vague, but most have a specific function. Just because they never come to pass doesn't mean we should interpret them vaguely over and over, it just means that they were empty prophecies. SW is full of them, they've tossed them out like candy on Halloween before, but this one has been done to death so I'm just kind of done with it.
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 PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:24 am Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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How was Jaina the Sword Of The Jedi when Luke killed Shimraa and Jacen killed whatever the other dudes name was? Ok, so that only reffered to after the Vong war..like when Luke killed Lomi Ploo during the Swarm War and Jaina was useless and then Luke killed Lumiya and then Luke killed Abeloth...

I fail to see how it can be construed that Jaina even contributed anything substantial on a military level to any of the Jedi conflicts since then, other than fighting equally alongside the rest of the Jedi. If it was just a nickname then it would be Ok, but it doesn't make sense as a Force prophecy unless it hasn't come to pass yet.

I also think it's pretty stupid that the point of the Clone wars and Order 66 was supposed to be that the Jedi shouldn't be fighting the galaxies wars, because you know "Wars not make one great. Jedi use the Force for knowledge and defense never attack. Fear, anger, aggression are the Dark Side..." Oh well, and even after it happened again with Jacen, they still keep doing it and the Force told them to with that stupid Sword of the Jedi Prophecy. More like Plot Hole Of The Jedi.

What do you expect when "energy field that binds the galaxy together" now means stuff that created monster clone maker that periodically kills everyone in the galaxy and also some dysfunctional Shakespearan family to fight her when they bother to get around to it.
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 PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:55 am Reply with quote  
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  Dancelittleewok
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The Sword of the Jedi prophecy hasn't been executed properly in the past, but Del Rey has an opportunity to change that now. I'm really surprised some of you don't like Christie Golden. Ascension was the best paced book in the series and had the right mix of politics, action, and intrigue, although some had issues with a particular scene. I'm gonna be open minded and hope this trilogy delivers.
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 PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:19 pm Reply with quote  
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  Niner
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I'm excited for this series. I like Jaina as a character, so it should be interesting. I've never been a big fan of the Sword of the jedi thing, it never really seems to mean anything exceopt that Jaina gets special treatment, but its not a big deal, and if they can do something interesting with it, it will be fine. Either way, I'm excited for the books.


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 PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:43 pm Reply with quote  
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  GrandMaster
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Dancelittleewok wrote:
Ascension was the best paced book in the series and had the right mix of politics, action, and intrigue, although some had issues with a particular scene.


I loved Ascension! All the twists and turns were great, and were actually surprising, something that hasn't happened recently in SW for me.

What scene are you referring to?
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“No. I am Ganner. This threshold is mine. I claim it for my own. Bring on your thousands, one at a time or all in a rush. I don’t give a damn. None shall pass.”

"Shaken, not stirred, will get you cold water with a dash of gin and dry vermouth. The reason you stir it with a special spoon is so not to chip the ice. James is ordering a weak martini and being snooty about it."


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 PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:13 pm Reply with quote  
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  Life Is The Path
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Dancelittleewok wrote:
The Sword of the Jedi prophecy hasn't been executed properly in the past, but Del Rey has an opportunity to change that now. I'm really surprised some of you don't like Christie Golden. Ascension was the best paced book in the series and had the right mix of politics, action, and intrigue, although some had issues with a particular scene. I'm gonna be open minded and hope this trilogy delivers.


I've no big problem with Golden. It's just that she hasn't particularly stood out, for me (other than the aforementioned hiccups, which I'm willing to overlook as an occasional thing).
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