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 PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:32 am Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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Mad Wook wrote:
Not sure who may have seen this, but here's a Genndy Tartakovsky interview regarding his show getting bumped from continuity. Pretty interesting.

HP: There can never be too many "Star Wars" references.

GT: Well, I did "Star Wars." I think I did more before I did it. But then, after i did it, I'm like, "Wow, I actually did the real thing." So I have to back off. A little goes a long way.

HP: Speaking of your version of "Clone Wars," does it bother you that there's another one and that the one you did seems to no longer be canon?

GT: Yeah. I mean, you know, of course it bothers me. But, you know, it's George's characters. It's his world and he has to do what he has to do. And the new ones are totally inspired by what we did: A lot of the same character designs and stuff.

HP: Does that part bother you, too?

GT: No, again, it's not my characters, so he can do whatever he wants. And the story was also that I was going to do it. I was going to go to Lucas and be their John Lasseter-type of person and do a feature and supervise the "Star Wars" television show. And things kind of fell apart, blah blah blah. But, yeah, I'm super proud of what we did. And I felt like we did a justice to "Star Wars" and as a fan.

HP: I mean, people haven't forgotten them, even though we are supposed to.

GT: That's the one thing that is kind of weird that he just wants to wipe it off. Because we used to be in the encyclopedias, some of the characters that we created. And now they're gone. And you can't get the DVD and all of this other stuff. And it's like, whatever. What are you going to do, right? It existed.

HP: But it feels like its been thrown on the scrapheap with the Holiday Special.

GT: I think George is brilliant. And I think he just wants to ... I don't know the reasoning, exactly. But from any sense that I can make out of it, he just wants it to be clean. But there's so much fiction that's out with "Star Wars," I don't think it would matter.


Indeed I just saw that and was going to drop the link in here. I noticed Mike from TFN thinks Traviss's books lost a lot of elements. I have to disagree. Nothing has been finalized to the point that things can't be salvaged. /

The fact that GL is now treating CW like the Holiday Special is disturbing though.
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 PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:48 am Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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DarthMRN wrote:

The EU is beholden to GL, as you mention yourself. So it will bend over backwards to accommodate him.


All I keep thinking- how much more I liked Star Trek, and how it's continuity became much more solidified AFTER it's creator passed away and couldn't effect that universe anymore. And as much as I will be saddened when the Maker passes on, a part of me will know there will be a lot less retcons to come.

No amount of my irkness or even rational points will change the way canon works with GL at the wheel, as always I try to have fun contemplating the various avenues to chaos that we have.

I'm kind of shocked by CW's being hard to find now. That alone shocks me. You'd think it being seen by GL as a trial run that there would still be copies for sale- unless they plan to re release some at a much later date at a collectors edition price or some such.


DarthMRN wrote:
Some droid not having been invented yet is nothing by comparison, insignificant, and not nearly a good enough reason for GL's employees to undermine his vision.


I continue to use the Droid as an example cause it didn't need to be over written- they didn't need to GIVE a reason- one already existed. But by answering the end answer alters our perception of the canon of the droid, thus rendering my Essential Guide to Droids in accurate.

Thankfully they have almost all been insignificant issues. Han shooting 1st or last is still pretty insignificant and yet we get such fun out of HAN SHOT FIRST lol

I think discussing continuity and canon is the nature of the beast when you branch out to more than just the films alone. Sooner or later it comes up.

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 PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:36 am Reply with quote  
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  GrandMaster
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illogicalRogue2 wrote:

All I keep thinking- how much more I liked Star Trek, and how it's continuity became much more solidified AFTER it's creator passed away and couldn't effect that universe anymore.


Of course, as soon as someone makes a new movie or TV series set after ST: Nemesis, all that continuity will be instantly obliterated, since the novels are all noncanon. I think I prefer the SW model - at least the novels are somewhat protected by the Holocron.
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 PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:18 am Reply with quote  
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  Mara Jade Skywalker
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Dancelittleewok wrote:
I keep thinking about how circumstantial continuity is. If that's the case, then retcons should be judged on a case-by-case basis, and we should allow continuity to be customizable. It means continuity, in essence, has no meaning - aside from the films. Or maybe I'm just cynical.


This is how I feel. Especially that last bit.

I have to say, though...we always say that this is Lucas's vision, so he can do what he wants with it. But Lucas chose to share his vision with the world, and at that point he had a responsibility to respect our opinions of his work. Not a legal responsibility, but a moral one. Uncle Ben knew what he was talking about: "With great power comes great responsibility." We, the fans, gave George his current power. I personally find it to be an insult that we are ignored in favor of his vacillating imagination.

Also, why make canon rules when you're just going to constantly break them? This, again, is an insult. You can't fit a rhyme or reason to "canon", because there isn't one. Just own up to the fact that canon is only what George wakes up and decides it is each day.
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 PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:47 am Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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Mara Jade Skywalker wrote:
Also, why make canon rules when you're just going to constantly break them? This, again, is an insult. You can't fit a rhyme or reason to "canon", because there isn't one. Just own up to the fact that canon is only what George wakes up and decides it is each day.

That one should be obvious. To ensure the EU didn't stray from his vision, which he is apparently protective enough of. He clearly either didn't intend to follow it himself, as the old notes about the EU being the individual creator's version, not GL's, shows. And the many interview comments where he refers to the EU as another universe than his. Or he was at one point willing accomodate it, but has since decided there is too much to keep track of, or things in it he doesn't agree with, and changed his mind as a result.

The only Leland hint I have ever come across where a EU product has to maintain continuity is in regards to the movies. It implies differential treatment, where the EU is just kept internally consistent to the degree it is, as an extension of that EU being consistent with the movies. I imagine it would break down to have one but not the other, but that internal EU consistency is a pretty low priority by comparison to the movie-EU one.
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 PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:55 pm Reply with quote  
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  Mad Wook
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I never understand why people say it's so hard for these companies to keep track of continuity and all the various stories. Nathan Butler and other timeliners do it for free. And do it well.


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 PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:27 am Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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Yep. All the more reason to suspect willful disregard of discrepancies.
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 PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:44 am Reply with quote  
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  Mara Jade Skywalker
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Agreed. If it's so hard to keep track of the inconsistencies, how come the fans always know about it? Everyone else can seem to keep track of it. They just don't want to. Which...if they would own up to that, would at least be better. But they hide behind this curtain of false effort. Frustrating.
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 PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:02 pm Reply with quote  
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  Werehunter
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As I said before, it's easier for fans to keep things straight partially because we only see on version, the final product. The people who work on the books, games, shows, ect see several versions. Both rough drafts and even brainstorming sessions where ideas are tossed around, rejected or tweaked. If you had so many different versions of stories crossing your path, continuity gets harder to keep track.

Though there is also willful disregard. If a TV show that runs five years, twenty episodes per year messes continuity up then it's foolish to think a universe that has been running for 30+ years in several different mediums to keep it straight.


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 PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:07 pm Reply with quote  
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  Mad Wook
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Weak.


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 PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:53 pm Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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GrandMaster wrote:
illogicalRogue2 wrote:

All I keep thinking- how much more I liked Star Trek, and how it's continuity became much more solidified AFTER it's creator passed away and couldn't effect that universe anymore.


Of course, as soon as someone makes a new movie or TV series set after ST: Nemesis, all that continuity will be instantly obliterated, since the novels are all noncanon. I think I prefer the SW model - at least the novels are somewhat protected by the Holocron.


My point being that for me Trek got better in both terms of story and it's continuity. At present even the new Trek movie managed to keep true enough to the continuity. Spock's story is set in the original continuity's time and THEN he goes back and the new time line is created. At present Trek HAS kept to a single continuity. They are just as non canon as the EU is in terms of how Lucas sees it.


So I stick with my thought-= I think SW will get BETTER when Lucas has moved on from it once and for all.

At present he is the one setting the tone for not caring about continuity.
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 PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:32 am Reply with quote  
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  Life Is The Path
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Quote:
My point being that for me Trek got better in both terms of story and it's continuity.


It could hardly get worse Wink .
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 PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:19 am Reply with quote  
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  Taral-DLOS
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Trek books only kept to their own continuity in the recent past though. Maybe ten years, when they started doing sagas outside the realm of the TV shows (like the DS9 Relaunch, the Voyager relaunch, the Nemesis lead-in and, the Titan adventures. Before that, everything was standalone, like the episodes of the TV show were largely meant to be.

It never bothered me that Trek TV shows and movies didn't keep the continuity of the novels that spun therefrom (especially in cases where a novel from the 70s got overridden by a movie in the 90s; there was a novel that told of First Contact between Humans and Vulcans in a very different way from Star Trek: First Contact). Those few modern stories that do have continuity don't have to worry too much, since they're beyond the reach of newer material.

The continuity issues that bothered me in Trek were inconsistent use of technology or plot devices. In one episode, nothing can leave the holodeck, but in another, Geordi walks out with a book, or Wesley comes out wet from falling in a river. Seven of Nine needs to regenerate every night, except when she leaves the ship for a period of time. Star Wars seems to have had a better time with that type of continuity.
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 PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:34 pm Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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Werehunter wrote:


Though there is also willful disregard. If a TV show that runs five years, twenty episodes per year messes continuity up then it's foolish to think a universe that has been running for 30+ years in several different mediums to keep it straight.


Except in most cases (dare say ALL cases with the TV show) the messes with Continuity are all caused by GL

One flaw. One flaw needing removed from the system for it to run smoothly again Laughing

Part of why I still maintain the issues will go away when he passes on.
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 PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:35 pm Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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Life Is The Path wrote:
Quote:
My point being that for me Trek got better in both terms of story and it's continuity.


It could hardly get worse Wink .


It could have kept with the status quo that MANY still think Trek falls under. Trek has had a continuity for a good while now. Wink
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