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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:55 am
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Dancelittleewok EUC Staff Joined: 15 Sep 2010 Posts: 1120 Location: Kansas Caedus_16 wrote: Lol I've learned recently from several of my female friends that at our age its not our personality that matters so much. My friends are some of the nicest guys on the face of this earth, but they aren't 6.5 feet tall with 6-packs and sadly these days that's pretty much checkmate till they're 30. But nice guys are everywhere, you just have to spend time getting to know them. Actually, what matters the most to me isn't looks or personality. A guy could have a six pack and a wonderful personality, but if he doesn't respect me, then things can only get worse from there. Respect sets the entire tone of a relationship. _________________ Observation: Life would be cooler if everyone spoke like HK-47. Communications Coordinator at EUCantina. Last edited by Dancelittleewok on Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:56 am; edited 1 time in total

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:56 am
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Caedus_16 Master Joined: 15 Apr 2008 Posts: 4419 Location: Korriban Dancelittleewok wrote: Caedus_16 wrote: Lol I've learned recently from several of my female friends that at our age its not our personality that matters so much. My friends are some of the nicest guys on the face of this earth, but they aren't 6.5 feet tall with 6-packs and sadly these days that's pretty much checkmate till they're 30. But nice guys are everywhere, you just have to spend time getting to know them. Actually, what matters the most to me isn't looks or personality. A guy could have a six pack and a wonderful personality, but if he doesn't respect me, then the relationship can only get worse from there. Respect sets the entire tone of a relationship. Its good to know people like you still exist. I don't see as many these days. _________________ Perfection is a lifelong pursuit requiring sacrifice. The only way to get it quicker is to sacrifice the most.

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:09 pm
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Salaris Vorn Moderator Joined: 02 Feb 2008 Posts: 2039 Location: New York, USA Caedus_16 wrote: Dancelittleewok wrote: Caedus_16 wrote: Lol I've learned recently from several of my female friends that at our age its not our personality that matters so much. My friends are some of the nicest guys on the face of this earth, but they aren't 6.5 feet tall with 6-packs and sadly these days that's pretty much checkmate till they're 30. But nice guys are everywhere, you just have to spend time getting to know them. Actually, what matters the most to me isn't looks or personality. A guy could have a six pack and a wonderful personality, but if he doesn't respect me, then the relationship can only get worse from there. Respect sets the entire tone of a relationship. Its good to know people like you still exist. I don't see as many these days. This just got me thinking but by "respect" what do you (general you) mean? I know it may seem like a really odd question so let me explain: a week or so ago I ran into a female grad student in my department at the supermarket. She proceeded to tell me about how at her apartment they are doing construction and that she really disliked the workers because almost all of them didn't treat her with respect. As she elaborated she perceived that they were patronizing her as a woman by offering to do things like help her carry her groceries up or holding doors open for her (she interpreted such acts as implicitly stating that, because she was a woman, she was not capable of doing these things without a man's help or at least not able of performing these tasks as efficiently/easily on her own as she would be with a man's help). So my question basically is probing at the issues she brought up: how are we defining "respect"? Do we mean in the old fashioned sense of carrying groceries or holding doors open as a sign of respect or do we mean respect in the apparently more modern sense? Obviously there are the cases of women who go for guys who aren't respectful under any definition but there does seem to be two very different competing views of what is and isn't respectful behavior. _________________ Last edited by Salaris Vorn on Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:30 pm
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Mara Jade Skywalker Master Joined: 15 Feb 2008 Posts: 5359 Location: Beyond Shadows I mean no disrespect toward the girl, but that's just silly. I can be a feminist at times, my friends have even labeled me as one, as I apparently have the strongest feelings on the matter. But I am more than flattered when a guy offers to help me or hold a door for me. _________________ "It's not about the legacy you leave, it's about the life you live." ~Mara Jade Skywalker

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:03 pm
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Taral-DLOS EUC Staff Joined: 23 Nov 2010 Posts: 1242 Location: Ontario, Canada Admittedly, the offer of carrying groceries up is a bit sketch. Not because it's disrespectful (I don't think it is on its face) but because it implicitly comes with an invitation into the apartment to put the groceries down, and maybe she shouldn't want strangers in her apartment. Holding doors open though is a perfectly respectful thing to do. I do it all the time. Heck, I do it for anyone who is walking behind me through the door, regardless of gender. It's only sketch if you see a woman going to a door, and running ahead of her to grab it. And even then, neither of those are disrespectful. Just sketch. _________________ It was the year of fire… the year of destruction… the year we took back what was ours. It was the year of rebirth… the year of great sadness… the year of pain… and the year of joy. It was a new age. It was the end of history. It was the year everything changed. The year is 2261. The place: Babylon 5.

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:22 pm
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Dancelittleewok EUC Staff Joined: 15 Sep 2010 Posts: 1120 Location: Kansas Salaris Vorn wrote: Caedus_16 wrote: Dancelittleewok wrote: Caedus_16 wrote: Lol I've learned recently from several of my female friends that at our age its not our personality that matters so much. My friends are some of the nicest guys on the face of this earth, but they aren't 6.5 feet tall with 6-packs and sadly these days that's pretty much checkmate till they're 30. But nice guys are everywhere, you just have to spend time getting to know them. Actually, what matters the most to me isn't looks or personality. A guy could have a six pack and a wonderful personality, but if he doesn't respect me, then the relationship can only get worse from there. Respect sets the entire tone of a relationship. Its good to know people like you still exist. I don't see as many these days. This just got me thinking but by "respect" what do you (general you) mean? I know it may seem like a really odd question so let me explain: a week or so ago I ran into a female grad student in my department at the supermarket. She proceeded to tell me about how at her apartment they are doing construction and that she really disliked the workers because almost all of them didn't treat her with respect. As she elaborated she perceived that they were patronizing her as a woman by offering to do things like help her carry her groceries up or holding doors open for her (she interpreted such acts as implicitly stating that, because she was a woman, she was not capable of doing these things without a man's help or at least not able of performing these tasks as efficiently/easily on her own as she would be with a man's help). She's alluding to benevolent sexism: Quote: Cross-national comparisons show that hostile and benevolent sexism go hand-in-hand (that is, nations that endorse hostile sexism also endorse benevolent sexism). The beliefs work together because benevolent sexism "rewards" women when they fulfill traditional roles whereas hostile sexism punishes women who do not toe the line, thereby working together to maintain traditional relations. In other words, act sweet and they'll pat you on the head; assert yourself and they'll put you in your place. (Source: Science Daily) I'll answer your last question and respond to others' comments when I return from the library. _________________ Observation: Life would be cooler if everyone spoke like HK-47. Communications Coordinator at EUCantina.

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:46 pm
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Autobon Master Joined: 17 Apr 2008 Posts: 751 Location: Seattle, Washington - maybe someone should start a thread on feminism... -

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:03 pm
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Caedus_16 Master Joined: 15 Apr 2008 Posts: 4419 Location: Korriban Dancelittleewok wrote: She's alluding to benevolent sexism: Its slightly sexist to assume every man who is polite enough to hold a door is being sexist... _________________ Perfection is a lifelong pursuit requiring sacrifice. The only way to get it quicker is to sacrifice the most.

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:58 pm
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Dog-Poop_Walker Master Joined: 28 Jan 2012 Posts: 686 Location: Official Med. Grove Troublemaker Here's a another definition that this thread has brought to mind: Urban Dictionary "Nice Guy Syndrome: A annoying mental condition in which a heterosexual man concocts over simplified ideas why women aren’t flocking to him in droves. Typically this male will whine and complain about how women never want to date them because he is “too nice” or that he is average in appearance. He often targets a woman who is already in a relationship; misrepresenting his intentions of wanting to be her friend and having the expectation that he is owed more than friendship because he is such a good listener. He is prone to brooding over this and passive aggressive behavior." _________________ They have taken the hearts and minds of our leaders. They have recruited the rich and the powerful, and they have blinded us to the truth! Our human spirit is corrupted. Why do we worship greed? Because, outside the limit of our sight, feeding off us, perched on top of us from birth to death are OUR OWNERS. They have us! They control us! They are our masters! Wake up! They’re all about you, all around you!

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:40 pm
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Caedus_16 Master Joined: 15 Apr 2008 Posts: 4419 Location: Korriban Dog-Poop_Walker wrote: Here's a another definition that this thread has brought to mind: Urban Dictionary "Nice Guy Syndrome: A annoying mental condition in which a heterosexual man concocts over simplified ideas why women aren’t flocking to him in droves. Typically this male will whine and complain about how women never want to date them because he is “too nice” or that he is average in appearance. He often targets a woman who is already in a relationship; misrepresenting his intentions of wanting to be her friend and having the expectation that he is owed more than friendship because he is such a good listener. He is prone to brooding over this and passive aggressive behavior." You have NO IDEA how many people I know like this. The consequences of knowing nerds who don't wanna put in the effort I suppose. _________________ Perfection is a lifelong pursuit requiring sacrifice. The only way to get it quicker is to sacrifice the most.

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:41 am
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Dancelittleewok EUC Staff Joined: 15 Sep 2010 Posts: 1120 Location: Kansas Caedus_16 wrote: Dancelittleewok wrote: She's alluding to benevolent sexism: Its slightly sexist to assume every man who is polite enough to hold a door is being sexist... I don't think every girl that's carrying groceries or is near a door needs help either. _________________ Observation: Life would be cooler if everyone spoke like HK-47. Communications Coordinator at EUCantina.

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:48 am
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Caedus_16 Master Joined: 15 Apr 2008 Posts: 4419 Location: Korriban Dancelittleewok wrote: Caedus_16 wrote: Dancelittleewok wrote: She's alluding to benevolent sexism: Its slightly sexist to assume every man who is polite enough to hold a door is being sexist... I don't think every girl that's carrying groceries or is near a door needs help either. Probably not, but I hold doors for anyone, man or woman, who needs a door opened or who is walking behind me. Problem is the women who get mad only thing about the sexism thing, not knowing that I'm just polite to everyone, kind of burying the hatchet in the idea that there is good feminism and feminism that is out of control. _________________ Perfection is a lifelong pursuit requiring sacrifice. The only way to get it quicker is to sacrifice the most.

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:23 pm
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Cerrinea Master Joined: 09 Jun 2009 Posts: 1410 Caedus_16 wrote: Probably not, but I hold doors for anyone, man or woman, who needs a door opened or who is walking behind me. Problem is the women who get mad only thing about the sexism thing, not knowing that I'm just polite to everyone, kind of burying the hatchet in the idea that there is good feminism and feminism that is out of control. Caedus, I'm calling you on that statement. I think negating the legitimate complaints of sexism with that statement is kind of along the lines of telling POCs there's no racism because a vocal few see it even in places it doesn't exist. Besides, I ascribe to the belief that it's the victims of discrimination who get to set the terms of what it is; not the majority who never experience it. _________________ Roqoo Depot co-founder.

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:09 pm
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Autobon Master Joined: 17 Apr 2008 Posts: 751 Location: Seattle, Washington Caedus_16 wrote: I hold doors for anyone, man or woman, who needs a door opened or who is walking behind me. Problem is the women who get mad only thing about the sexism thing, not knowing that I'm just polite to everyone, kind of burying the hatchet in the idea that there is good feminism and feminism that is out of control. I wholeheartedly agree. Unfortunately, there are a number of insecure people that feel victimized in even the most ridiculous circumstances. Its best to leave these people to their own devices - continuing to think that they are perhaps the only ones in the world that have ever been discriminated against, and that somehow, it gives them an obligation to be pretentious jerks towards any well-intentioned individual. -

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:33 pm
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Dog-Poop_Walker Master Joined: 28 Jan 2012 Posts: 686 Location: Official Med. Grove Troublemaker I'm pretty sure someone who thinks that they are the subject of sexism doesn't think they are the only person in the world who has ever been discriminated against, they probably feel like it's a widespread social problem effecting an entire group of people, which is why there is a word for it pertaining to that exact phenomenon and a philosophy to counteract it. It's usually someone of a privileged group that has never been the subject of institutional and societal group discrimination who suffers a perceived personal setback that feels a sense of insecurity and overblown victimization. _________________ They have taken the hearts and minds of our leaders. They have recruited the rich and the powerful, and they have blinded us to the truth! Our human spirit is corrupted. Why do we worship greed? Because, outside the limit of our sight, feeding off us, perched on top of us from birth to death are OUR OWNERS. They have us! They control us! They are our masters! Wake up! They’re all about you, all around you!

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