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 PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:58 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Cerrinea wrote:
Caedus_16 wrote:
Probably not, but I hold doors for anyone, man or woman, who needs a door opened or who is walking behind me. Problem is the women who get mad only thing about the sexism thing, not knowing that I'm just polite to everyone, kind of burying the hatchet in the idea that there is good feminism and feminism that is out of control.


Caedus, I'm calling you on that statement. I think negating the legitimate complaints of sexism with that statement is kind of along the lines of telling POCs there's no racism because a vocal few see it even in places it doesn't exist.

Besides, I ascribe to the belief that it's the victims of discrimination who get to set the terms of what it is; not the majority who never experience it.


I'll go on that statement. I think that men experience sexual discrimination all the time, but it isn't as open. Like I said, I hold doors for everyone. But its sexist when a woman yells at me for holding it for her. She assumes it is just because she is a woman, but she doesn't know me. The problem is that sexism goes both ways. I'm ashamed of the male gender as a whole, many are deplorable and are encouraged via media and music to remain so. But many of us are just polite to anyone, male or female, whatever race, whatever sexual preference. But we get jumped on for small things. The sexism goes both ways. Rhetorically sexism is actually supposed to fully mean equality. Humanism is a better term because ideally everyone would be equal.

I openly state that sexism is a live and well. I live in the bible belt, its there everywhere and everyday. So is homophobia. So are 'Vote Romney' stickers. But I'll say that the sexism goes both ways, further complicating the matter. I don't even think about it, I just try to be polite to everyone I know. No one's gender or race or sexual preferences get preferential treatment from me. My rule is that I'm nice and chivalrous to everyone unless they give me a reason not to, and I'll adhere to that till the day I die. Its how I was raised by my dad (for a hardcore republican he got a lot right with me) and I'm proud of things like that. Women are different than men in few ways, most of them cosmetic. Just like different races are all people and cultural differences are where racism lies. I think the sexism had bred reverse sexism and honestly trying to be PC can be frustrating, but I think if more people adhered to my policy of just trying to be good to everyone it would balance out.
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 PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:19 am Reply with quote  
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  Autobon
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Dog-Poop_Walker wrote:
I'm pretty sure someone who thinks that they are the subject of sexism doesn't think they are the only person in the world who has ever been discriminated against


Hyperbole.

Dog-Poop_Walker wrote:
It's usually someone of a privileged group that has never been the subject of institutional and societal group discrimination who suffers a perceived personal setback that feels a sense of insecurity and overblown victimization.


There is certainly real sexism that occurs still today, and to both sexes. I agree with you - those who have never experienced it to any meaningful degree tend to be the most outspoken about their perceived "discrimination." Living in deeply liberal Seattle, I am around a culture of victimization all day, so its easy to become jaded on the issue.

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 PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:28 am Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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Quote:
those who have never experienced it to any meaningful degree tend to be the most outspoken about their perceived "discrimination."


And this bit of hyperbole is based on what empirical evidence exactly? Because if there's no evidence to back your claim, this is only your opinion.
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 PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:06 am Reply with quote  
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  Autobon
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Cerrinea wrote:
this is only your opinion.


Yes, it is my opinion based on anecdotal evidence - which unfortunately is what much of feminism seems to be based on (I had to take a class on the subject, and not by choice). In any case, I was speaking of those that get self-righteous because another individual opens a door for them, or in some other similar circumstance. It is amazing how many times we hear of those kinds of "issues." Would it not be preferable if the conversation focused on real forms of sexism, as opposed to perceived?

You're free to cherry pick a sentence, though I would honestly like to hear your opinion on the subject.

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 PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:04 am Reply with quote  
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  Dancelittleewok
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Ladies and gentlemen, I've created a gender issues thread. That is all.
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 PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:10 am Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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I already gave my opinion which is: it's not the discriminators who get to decide what discrimination is, but the one's who are discriminated against.

And it's my opinion that the incidents of females being affronted by having a door opened for them under reasonable and polite circumstances is highly inflated. A woman, however, who does not want to let a stranger into her apartment is practicing safety first. That woman does not know if that man is sincere or a rapist. Since the stats on rape in the US are over 207,000/year, and rapes are under-reported (that's not an opinion; it's a stat), a female is wise to be cautious about letting any stranger into her home. Safety first.

However, even if such incidents of women not liking what is seen as a polite gesture aren't inflated, it's still her right to not like it and to voice her dislike. It's everyone's right to determine what behaviors directed towards them they approve or don't approve of.
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 PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:33 am Reply with quote  
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  Mara Jade Skywalker
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They can certainly choose not to like it, but why must they label it a sexist move? Is it considered sexist for a woman to hold a door for another woman? Because I often do just that. Confused
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 PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:36 am Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Dancelittleewok wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen, I've created a gender issues thread. That is all.


Was wondering when that would happen.
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