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 PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:42 pm Reply with quote  
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  Lord Bane
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Darth_Henning wrote:
Darth Skuldren wrote:
....small but significant change?....


*NOTE: there are 6 years between NJO and DN, and 4 more between DN and LOTF where there are no stories written, and are conveniently about 35ish years after ANH ... just as its been 35 years since ANH was released in theaters. I think that's the perfect place to put the new trilogy. Just my 2C


I agree and wouldn't mind if they started off there. Though they probably won't, one can hope.


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 PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:53 am Reply with quote  
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  Alan Skywalker V
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Reepicheep wrote:
I wonder if we'll ever get retcon updated novels as re-releases.


Nailed it, Reep. That's something I would love to see, but sadly I doubt it'll ever happen. I had hoped that the 20th Anniversary Edition of HTTE and future editions of DFR and TLC might have corrected dates to bring the trilogy in line with the PT, but from what I've heard HTTE doesn't correct anything and the door's pretty much been slammed on new editions of DFR and TLC.


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 PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:51 am Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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^ I don't really like additions or changes to released works *coughTheOriginalTrilogycough*, but I don't think I'd mind it in this case and might even like it. Re-releases would help to clean up continuity a bit... but that's only if Lucasfilm is willing to play nice with the EU now that it's under new management. If Lucasfilm is going to continue trampling on the EU, Del Rey may as well leave the books as is, because they'll need to be re-released every couple of years.
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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:43 pm Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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Just look how long it took to get a copy of ESB with a GREEN Yoda instead of a BLUE one.

As cool as it'd be- I doubt they'd bother. ;(
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 PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:30 pm Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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I'm pretty much done with EU continuity. And by extension, the EU itself.

The reason? Simple. As I have mentioned earlier in this thread, continuity only has value as a constraint of future works IMO. It defines something, and subsequent products have to adhere to that. Without this quality, there is no continuity, merely officialness. And even Infinites is official, so that hardly makes up for it.

As both TCW and most likely the Disney movies will prove, the most authoritiative sources of SW, the ones that the EU will take its cues from, are not thus constrained by EU "continuity". Rendering that continuity an illusion, only marginally valid until a new film comes along to violate it, bringing its own host of EU tie-ins with it.

I don't see how EU continuity can be taken seriously in light of that any more.

EU canon before the Holocron was a joke. Post-Holocon we had ten glorious years where the EU actually needed to be coherent, where old material got to constrain the new. We had reason to believe in the continuity illusion. We knew on some level Lucas could override it if he wanted, but apart from OT revisions, he had promised never to return to the GFFA. So in practice, we had reason for optimism that there could be a genuine EU continuity. Something to believe in, as opposed to merely be entertained by. I became an EU fan on that premise.

But now, with TCW and Disney, we do have new top-dog canon sources, and we will keep getting more. That dispels the illusion big time, any way I can see. There is no longer any rational reason to think a new EU book or comic will be respected in the future. No amount of retcons can alleviate that. Retcons per definition can't create continuity, they can only fix it after the fact.

I for one need to believe that the source in front of me actually matters, if I am to be invested in EU continuity. A bunch of retcons that alters the spirit of that source in order to make it fit with something obviously contradicting it, is not nearly enough of a consolation prize. Just because it got fixed and the whole is now coherent again, doesn't mean there is a continuity per the above definition.

I need actual continuity, where I can believe in a source as-is, rather than mere after-the-fact coherence attained only by twisting it. A continuity that can't be violated freely just because a retcon can "fix" it. Under such a scheme, any creator can -in practice- do anything they want with SW. That is not good enough. Took me a while to come to terms with that.

So I'm out. Been a good run.
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 PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:47 am Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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^ That's very understandable. It's hard not to feel used with the way things have been going down recently. "The Expanded Universe is nothing but fanfiction... but I still want your money for it."

Lucas had a terrible relationship with the EU that he approved of and that is making him money. I'm cautiously optimistic that Disney will handle thngs better, but I'm not holding my breath. The future of Star Wars should be interesting, if nothing else.
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 PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:19 am Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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DarthMRN wrote:

So I'm out. Been a good run.




I hope that doesn't mean we won't still see you around here!

Here; let me at least let you fly out in my spare X-Wing.
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 PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:47 pm Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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Don't worry, I have actually grown fond of TCW as entertainment. And I am looking forward to the Disney Wars with optimism, so I'll still be around. I'll still be a fan. I doubt I will spend any more time on any EU, however.

This site is "All EU, all the time", so I'll probably reserve myself mostly for Lucas/Disneyverse topics. Not that I posted excessively much to begin with. Though if I know myself right, I'll still pitch in on the occasional EU issues from time to time, drawing upon the knowledge I retain from the heyday.
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 PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:01 pm Reply with quote  
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  Taral-DLOS
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Shame. I didn't realize that books and comics became instantly unenjoyable when they didn't fit in continuity anymore.

I guess I should get rid of my old 1960s Marvel books. They don't fit in continuity, so they must be godawful.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but I genuinely don't see how that works. Books are enjoyable because the stories they tell, not because they intertwine perfectly.
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 PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:18 pm Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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Not so fast, Taral. You need to give in to the dark side, abandon the non-canon...and sell those Marvel comics to me *enhances with Force gesture*

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 PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:26 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Good stories are fine, I love some of the old Marvel Comics (some are good, some are so bad they're good, some are just bad) and their exclusion from continuity didn't really hurt at all.

Its different when we've gotten along with children and families and such, and the Marvel Comics are still canon but they're wedged in differently. I see it as something that would erase EU as a whole and that bothers me a lot. Star Wars has done something fairly unique in building its canon, it could easily be frustrating if it was tossed away.
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 PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:48 pm Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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Taral-DLOS wrote:
Shame. I didn't realize that books and comics became instantly unenjoyable when they didn't fit in continuity anymore.

I guess I should get rid of my old 1960s Marvel books. They don't fit in continuity, so they must be godawful.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but I genuinely don't see how that works. Books are enjoyable because the stories they tell, not because they intertwine perfectly.

Once the EU ceases to be "true" SW, remaining only entertainment in SW clothing, I must as a SW fan ask myself, "Are these stories so good that I prefer them over other sources of entertainment competing for my attention, or did I just indulge in them because I'm a SW fan?". Given the immediate drop in interest I felt once the Disney movies were announced on the tail end of the TCW troubles, the answer is apparently "No, they are not that good".

If the old Marvel stories rank highly enough in your mind -strictly as entertainment- to beat out the competition, then I must say you have an *ehrm* ...acquired taste.

Remember also what I said about the very premise behind me becoming an EU fan in the first place. The continuity was it. It has been the excuse for my attempts at loremastery, at owning and knowing as many sources on as detailed a level as I have. Had I sought mere entertainment, I would not have exposed myself to nearly as much material as I have.
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 PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:08 am Reply with quote  
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  Taral-DLOS
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@DarthMRN: See, that makes sense to me. I suppose the interconnectivity can have some appeal, and it seems your enjoyment in the continuity outweighs your enjoyment in the stories themselves.

I used to be like that, but lately I've turned to an entertainment-centric approach. Late 2012 was the first time in a very long time that I've chosen not to buy Star Wars novels. I skipped Mercy Kill and Scoundrels because they didn't interest me much (though I'll probably get them as paperbacks or from the bargain bin in a few months time). I bought TOR: Annihiliation and The Last Jedi because those stories do interest me. I skipped Dark Times: Fire Carrier because the quality of Dark Times has been hit/miss, and the new volume of Legacy because I'm not willing to commit to it, but I'm loving the new Star Wars ongoing and the Darth Vader stuff. Picking and choosing the stories that I like the most lets me focus my enjoyment on the good stuff, while saving my resources for non-Star Wars things I like (example: I've been loving All-New X-Men, Uncanny X-Men, and Thor: God of Thunder quite a bit, and those are all quite a bit more expensive than SW).

@Skuldren: Sorry to disappoint, but most of my old Marvels are either digital or in the form of B&W "Essential" TPBs (though at my local Comiccon I'm planning on buying some of my favs in original issue form). Most of those old stories are out of continuity, because of Marvel's floating timeline (where many old stories get retconned to be more recent they are, since characters introduced 50 years ago have only aged 20 years at most.) Issues with Iron Man fighting in Vietnam don't count anymore, since they retconned his origin to being in Desert Storm, for example. But the stories are still wonderful, if aged.
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-Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear


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 PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:51 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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Like DarthMNRN the continuity was one of the biggest draws of the EU. I've never been a fan of fanfiction. I just don't see the point of it. However, the EU seemed like more than fanfiction, because it actually continued the storyline and brought in new directions and there was (relatively good) cohesion among the books. If the EU continuity gets wrecked beyond repair then I'll just reject it like any other "fanfiction".

Also the Marvel comics were written before there was a serious attempt at EU continuity.
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 PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:06 am Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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In terms of non SW comics I think it's important to consider the difference between canon and continuity. Like SW there are varying degrees of canon, but for most comic series continuity is not intended to follow within a series or transfer from series to series, it is generally confined to individual story arcs, if present at all.
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