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 PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:34 am Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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Caedus_16 wrote:
Crash Override wrote:
I think the first five books of the New Jedi Order are relatively speaking a high point in the series; IMO, it's the biggest cluster of books I'd recommend in the series. Vector Prime is a bit too heavy on exposition, but the rollercoaster ride of Onslaught, Ruin, Hero's Trial, and Jedi Eclipse is swell. Afterward, it becomes a bit more hit or miss.


I actually found Edge of Victory through Dark Journey to be a strong section. I actually enjoyed Edge of Victory through Traitor so I guess for me the center of the series really does it.


Well, Dark Tide is evocative of the preceding Bantam line with callbacks to Hand of Thrawn and I, Jedi, while Agents of Chaos, specifically Hero's Trial, is a callback to the Brian Daley Han Solo novels.

I think Traitor is the best novel by far, and I suppose that Enemy Lines coupled with Traitor and Destiny's Way is comparably another, possibly higher point in the series.

In my last rereading of the series, I got a strong Battlestar Galactica vibe from Destiny's Way.


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 PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:12 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Crash Override wrote:
Caedus_16 wrote:
Crash Override wrote:
I think the first five books of the New Jedi Order are relatively speaking a high point in the series; IMO, it's the biggest cluster of books I'd recommend in the series. Vector Prime is a bit too heavy on exposition, but the rollercoaster ride of Onslaught, Ruin, Hero's Trial, and Jedi Eclipse is swell. Afterward, it becomes a bit more hit or miss.


I actually found Edge of Victory through Dark Journey to be a strong section. I actually enjoyed Edge of Victory through Traitor so I guess for me the center of the series really does it.


Well, Dark Tide is evocative of the preceding Bantam line with callbacks to Hand of Thrawn and I, Jedi, while Agents of Chaos, specifically Hero's Trial, is a callback to the Brian Daley Han Solo novels.

I think Traitor is the best novel by far, and I suppose that Enemy Lines coupled with Traitor and Destiny's Way is comparably another, possibly higher point in the series.

In my last rereading of the series, I got a strong Battlestar Galactica vibe from Destiny's Way.


That's actually a reason I enjoyed that novel. It felt like true war, there were guerrilla tactics and quicker hand to hand fights, the realism in it was higher and it felt like another high point to me.
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 PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:11 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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Listening to the Episode II soundtrack is giving major nostalgia for the series, especially around that Traitor/Destiny's Way period. It's also reminding me of the terrible fan fiction that I wrote eleven years ago set during NJO. I'll just say an element of that fanfic is in Crimson Empire 3 and deals with stuff that is from Episode II...


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 PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:52 pm Reply with quote  
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  1337Jedi
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I took really bad advice on what books to read a few years back and skipped the NJO. But Star by Star being on everyone's fav 5 list, was the boot I needed to read this bad boy of a series. With 5 down I'd say the Dark Tide duo is the best so far. AOC II's ending was a little lack luster with the big Droma/Ryn reunion not even happinging "on screen" left a little bit missing. Pushing through Balance point now, it's not bad but it doesn't feel like a typical SW novel.... Not deep enough to put my finger on it yet....
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 PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:07 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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I think the New Jedi Order is the apex of the literary side of Star Wars. The EU really needs to revamp itself and look to the NJO, not as a model for another uberseries, but as the best example the literary EU has provided of continuity of tone, of theme, of character, and general continuity that the fans want, across the largest volume of stories. Legacy of the Force and Fate of the Jedi are one book shy of being the same length as the New Jedi Order, but are much less consistent in all the things that I just named in comparison to the NJO.

As for Balance Point, it has some interesting bits but it is the weakest of the five hardcovers. I suspect it is a hardcover for financial reasons more so than story reasons.


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 PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:04 pm Reply with quote  
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  Werehunter
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I disagree with that. I believe that NJO was actually less consistent than Legacy of the Force and Fate of the Jedi. I say that despite enjoying NJO better than the other two.

NJO has dozens of plots that were created in books only to be never touched again. Things that were made to be important at the start of the series had no point by the time the ending came around. One big one I can think of is that Bothan Admiral, whose name escapes me at the moment. He was basically running the whole show, only for him to be massively reduced by the end to a bit player that wanted to commit genocide.

Another is The Insiders, which ended up being utterly pointless. I actually think the story would have been better if the galactic government had completely collapsed and only groups like the Insiders were working together.

I will say that tone wise, at least when it comes to Legacy of the Force, NJO was far more consistent. And that mainly because of how dark Traviss' books were in LotF. Going from Allston to Traviss leaves one with massive mood whiplash.


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 PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:25 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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The New Jedi Order had a lot of dropped subplots. And Legacy of the Force has Jacen's tassels and Fate of the Jedi had Kessel, among other things. Like why did Jacen send Ben to Ziost in Exile? Did that amulet ever come up again?

Not to mention that the Abeloth reveal at the end of Fate of the Jedi was obviously dropped in at the last minute, because otherwise the series would have dealt with that instead of shunting it off until the final book and then saying "well, we'll deal with this in the next book if we don't think of a better story." Instead of mindlessly revisiting Bantam planets like Pydyr and Nam Chorios chasing Abeloth to no avail in each novel, they could have been looking for Mortis to find the dagger.

I tend to think the entire Abeloth aspect of the plot was a dropped subplot in the sense that they completely changed it with the final book, and all the build up with the Destructors and Skyborn and Those Who Dwell Beyond the Veil, the entire purpose whole sections of books existed in the series, was dropped. I'm not sure why Luke and Ben had to visit the Kel Dor or the Aing-Tii from a narrative perspective. I don't see it as any different than the Insiders. Heck, you can drop the novel Backlash from Fate of the Jedi completely and pretend that Ben and Luke captured Vestara at the end of Abyss and not miss a damn thing.

New Jedi Order had consistent character arcs across the nineteen books, which can't be said for either Legacy of the Force or Fate of the Jedi. Jacen's characterization in Legacy of the Force jumps around so much book to book I'm surprised they didn't try to retcon it as schizophrenia.

As far as I know, Legacy of the Force and Fate of the Jedi didn't even have a central theme to either series. There was no hero's journey for Ben, or any character. I suppose at least it can be said that Legacy of the Force had a central idea to it, which was Jacen Solo turns to the dark side. I think the central idea to Fate of the Jedi was to retrace Jacen's steps to figure out why he turned dark, but that was ultimately discarded by book three, and by book six Luke is straight up saying Vergere was a Sith infiltrator, so I'm not sure why Luke even needed to retrace Jacen's steps? Confused

As for Kre'fey, when did he become marginalized? He's a feature character in Destiny's Way and The Unifying Force. If anything, he became marginalized by the Dark Nest trilogy, which unnecessarily replaced him with Nek Bwua'tu, another Bothan admiral for some reason? I dunno. A lot of the dropped subplots were plot hooks that New Jedi Order set up like a baton in a relay that Dark Nest and Legacy of the Force just dropped. Kre'fey seems to have been likewise dropped. And Kre'fey's apparent marginalization doesn't seem all too different from the emergence and submersion of pet characters between novels in LOTF-FOTJ.


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 PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:40 pm Reply with quote  
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  Niner
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Just finished Death Star. It was a good book. I liked seeing the events on the death Star from a bunch of different perspectives, including vader's.


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 PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:53 am Reply with quote  
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  Alan Skywalker V
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R.A. Salvatore's Attack of the Clones.

I must say, after reading The Phantom Menace last week and reading ATOC now, I feel that the adult novelizations of the PT are superior to the OT. ROTS, of course, is the best of the PT novelizations. The OT novels were great for their time, especially since they include scenes not seen onscreen in the films, but the PT novels blow them out of the water. The sheer amount of unseen visual material presented in those novels is astonishing.


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 PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:17 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Alan Skywalker V wrote:
R.A. Salvatore's Attack of the Clones.

I must say, after reading The Phantom Menace last week and reading ATOC now, I feel that the adult novelizations of the PT are superior to the OT. ROTS, of course, is the best of the PT novelizations. The OT novels were great for their time, especially since they include scenes not seen onscreen in the films, but the PT novels blow them out of the water. The sheer amount of unseen visual material presented in those novels is astonishing.


The PT novels definitely blow the OT novels out of the water, and they indeed even blow the films out of the water as well.
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 PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:16 pm Reply with quote  
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  Sunless
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Finished the Bane trilogy. I really enjoyed it, though a very little bit annoyed how the book set up things for another book...... no followup is on the cards. UGH!

And now time for my first PT era novel..... Plagueis.

Someone on this thread said it'd be interesting for someone to read Plagueis right after the Bane trilogy and I thought why not? So my first PT book, my first Luceno, but the culmination of a dynasty that began with Bane.


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 PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:24 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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I think maximum enjoyment of Darth Plagueis is derived by someone with full knowledge of the EU, from the Bedlam Spirits to the Order of the Canted Circle to the Thyrsus Sun Guard... I suppose Wookieepedia would be a decent simulacrum but I imagine looking up every other detail in the novel would be inconvenient.

Failing that, however, I suspect that it is enhanced by reading the so-called Episode I lead-in series consisting of Jedi Council: Acts of War, Cloak of Deception, the Darth Maul comic miniseries, Darth Maul: Saboteur, and Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter. Or at the very least Cloak of Deception. I imagine that Cloak of Deception would be a decent follow up.


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 PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:25 pm Reply with quote  
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  Sunless
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Crash Override wrote:
I think maximum enjoyment of Darth Plagueis is derived by someone with full knowledge of the EU, from the Bedlam Spirits to the Order of the Canted Circle to the Thyrsus Sun Guard... I suppose Wookieepedia would be a decent simulacrum but I imagine looking up every other detail in the novel would be inconvenient.

Failing that, however, I suspect that it is enhanced by reading the so-called Episode I lead-in series consisting of Jedi Council: Acts of War, Cloak of Deception, the Darth Maul comic miniseries, Darth Maul: Saboteur, and Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter. Or at the very least Cloak of Deception. I imagine that Cloak of Deception would be a decent follow up.


I'm a long time comic fan, so I'm a little used to not understanding every reference. I'll see how I go, I've been excited for this for a long time. I do have Shadow Hunter on the way in the mail. Cloak is on my wish list. Apart from that my other PT era books waiting to be read are the Vader trilogy.

If anything I suspect Plagueis will make me hungry for more.

After Plagueis I'm not sure what to read next. Children of the Jedi is waiting for me, so is the Vader trilogy and Crispin's Solo trilogy. I am kinda anxious to get to Starfighters of Adumar.


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 PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:35 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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Children of the Jedi is something of a character study for Leia. It's somewhat plodding. I'm really not sure how I would rate it. I think it depends on your frame of mind. If you're willing to commit yourself to a slow novel then it's okay, but I suspect that most people do not read Star Wars for that reason. So I guess it's a bad Star Wars novel.

I'm assuming that the Vader trilogy is Labyrinth of Evil, Revenge of the Sith, and Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader. If so, Luceno's prose in the two bookends will be familiar after Darth Plagueis. Revenge of the Sith is considered to be one of the best SW novels altogether, and by many to be superior to the film.


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 PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:53 pm Reply with quote  
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  Sunless
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Crash Override wrote:
Children of the Jedi is something of a character study for Leia. It's somewhat plodding. I'm really not sure how I would rate it. I think it depends on your frame of mind. If you're willing to commit yourself to a slow novel then it's okay, but I suspect that most people do not read Star Wars for that reason. So I guess it's a bad Star Wars novel.

I'm assuming that the Vader trilogy is Labyrinth of Evil, Revenge of the Sith, and Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader. If so, Luceno's prose in the two bookends will be familiar after Darth Plagueis. Revenge of the Sith is considered to be one of the best SW novels altogether, and by many to be superior to the film.


Thats the trilogy. I've heard good things.

It's true, at least for me, that slow and Star Wars shouldn't mix too much. But I do want to read all the ABY novels.


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