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What Book are you reading now? (Other than Star Wars)
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 PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:50 am Reply with quote  
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  Life Is The Path
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Cerrinea wrote:
Mansfield Park is my favorite Jane Austin novel. Don't bother watching the last movie version. It's ghastly. They put something significant in it that was total fantasy on the writer's part and never existed in the novel.

When you've finished the book, I'll tell what it is.


Duly noted, and I look forward to hearing what it is Smile . I'm liking it so far; though, because I've been busy redecorating, I've only managed to read it in bits, over the week, and as a consequence I keep forgetting who's who. But, again, despite this I'm enjoying it.
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 PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:54 pm Reply with quote  
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  Taral-DLOS
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So I was exploring the audiobook section of my local library, and stumbled upon a Dune expanded universe audiobook. Namely, "Paul of Dune".

It's rekindled my love of Dune. I'm currently watching the Sci-Fi Channel miniseries. I've got Paul of Dune on my iPod and I'm reading Dune: House Atreides. I also bought Dune: House Harkonnen, Dune: House Corrino, Dune: The Butlerian Jihad, and Dune: The Machine Crusade.

I'm also going to need to re-read the original book, and finally crack open the rest of the saga.
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 PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:57 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Taral-DLOS wrote:
So I was exploring the audiobook section of my local library, and stumbled upon a Dune expanded universe audiobook. Namely, "Paul of Dune".

It's rekindled my love of Dune. I'm currently watching the Sci-Fi Channel miniseries. I've got Paul of Dune on my iPod and I'm reading Dune: House Atreides. I also bought Dune: House Harkonnen, Dune: House Corrino, Dune: The Butlerian Jihad, and Dune: The Machine Crusade.

I'm also going to need to re-read the original book, and finally crack open the rest of the saga.


When you finish all that let me know, I'm curious to see your reaction to how it all ends.
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 PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:57 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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Life Is The Path wrote:
Interesting fact, Sir Thomas Malory, who wrote that story of chivalry and courtly love Morte D'Arthur, wrote it while in prison for armed assault and rape ...


Thanks for that, Life... Neutral

I'm nearly finished Oliver Twist. I've got to say, I think this book is over-rated. I liked A Tale of Two Cities much better. I still love Dickens writing (especially his sarcasm Laughing ) and
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, but otherwise I didn't think it was that interesting.
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 PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:46 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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When you said Tale of Two Cities was better I smiled so wide I thought my face was going to go numb, that is one of my absolute favorite books and I consider it Dickens' best by far.
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 PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:12 am Reply with quote  
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  Life Is The Path
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Reepicheep wrote:
Life Is The Path wrote:
Interesting fact, Sir Thomas Malory, who wrote that story of chivalry and courtly love Morte D'Arthur, wrote it while in prison for armed assault and rape ...


Thanks for that, Life... Neutral


Does knowing Isaac Asimov sexually assaulted women lessen my enjoyment of his books? (It doesn't) Or Orson Scott Card's bigotry prevent (someone else's) liking of Ender's Game? Or Dickens' treatment of his wife prevent you liking A Tale of Two Cities? Why?
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I am a Star Wars fan. That doesn't mean that I hate or love Jar Jar. That doesn't mean I hate or love Lucas, or agree or disagree 100% with him. That doesn't mean I prefer the PT over the OT, or vice versa. That doesn't mean I hate the EU, or even love all of it. These are not prerequisites. Being a man is not a prerequisite. Being a geek is not a prerequisite. The only prerequisite is that I love something about Star Wars. I am a Star Wars fan.


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 PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:50 am Reply with quote  
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  Jedi Joe
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Life Is The Path wrote:
(It doesn't) Or Orson Scott Card's bigotry prevent (someone else's) liking of Ender's Game?


Don't remind me... Confused
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 PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:08 am Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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Life Is The Path wrote:
Reepicheep wrote:
Life Is The Path wrote:
Interesting fact, Sir Thomas Malory, who wrote that story of chivalry and courtly love Morte D'Arthur, wrote it while in prison for armed assault and rape ...


Thanks for that, Life... Neutral


Does knowing Isaac Asimov sexually assaulted women lessen my enjoyment of his books? (It doesn't) Or Orson Scott Card's bigotry prevent (someone else's) liking of Ender's Game? Or Dickens' treatment of his wife prevent you liking A Tale of Two Cities? Why?


Well, I wasn't aware of Dickens, but yes actually knowing about Asimov and OSC does affect my liking for their work. In Asimov's case, there's a long history there, and from some of his novels, it's obviously he knew that what he was doing was offensive, and he did it anyway. Also he doesn't get the age/era excuse. My dad was the same age and he didn't go around doing what Asimov did. Many men didn't. As for OSC, his behavior has been especially egregious to the point I can't support him by supporting his work. There are a couple others who I will not support because of really really bad behavior -- Roman Polanski being one. What these people have in common is not only bad behavior that harms others, but absolutely no remorse for the behavior.
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 PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:15 am Reply with quote  
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  Taral-DLOS
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Life Is The Path wrote:
Reepicheep wrote:
Life Is The Path wrote:
Interesting fact, Sir Thomas Malory, who wrote that story of chivalry and courtly love Morte D'Arthur, wrote it while in prison for armed assault and rape ...


Thanks for that, Life... Neutral


Does knowing Isaac Asimov sexually assaulted women lessen my enjoyment of his books? (It doesn't) Or Orson Scott Card's bigotry prevent (someone else's) liking of Ender's Game? Or Dickens' treatment of his wife prevent you liking A Tale of Two Cities? Why?


I wouldn't say it lessens enjoyment, but in the case of Card (the only one among them still living), it affects the decision as to whether I spend money on the product, or decide to consume it in some way that is free but still legal (e.g. library, borrow from someone, etc.). I kind of want to see the Ender's Game movie, but if I do, I'll probably withdraw the DVD from the library.
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-Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear


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 PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:21 am Reply with quote  
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  Jedi Joe
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I'm really conflicted in Card's case. His views on homosexuality are very tribal and I don't agree with them at all. However, besides that, he seems like a great guy. I really don't understand how such a smart person could have discriminatory views on one issue. It's very troubling. Confused

This would make a good topic on its own in the med grove... Laughing
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 PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:50 am Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Jedi Joe wrote:
I'm really conflicted in Card's case. His views on homosexuality are very tribal and I don't agree with them at all. However, besides that, he seems like a great guy. I really don't understand how such a smart person could have discriminatory views on one issue. It's very troubling. Confused

This would make a good topic on its own in the med grove... Laughing


It would!

And I see it that Scott is entitled to his views. He's dug in, he's had people bash him as well as politely try to discuss it with him and he isn't going to budge. But he isn't dragging gay people through the mud or lynching them, he's just opposing it. Sadly compared to a lot of people who stand against him he comes off as far more rational in his debate style whereas his competition just rages and yells.

I say let him be. He's stuck, but he's old and won't last too terribly much longer. His literature is still worth reading and that works for me.
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 PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:53 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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Caedus_16 wrote:
When you said Tale of Two Cities was better I smiled so wide I thought my face was going to go numb, that is one of my absolute favorite books and I consider it Dickens' best by far.

Me too! I love that book to death! Very Happy Btw did you get all the references in The Dark Knight Rises? My favourite was Bane "knitting". Razz

As far as Malory's sexual assault (I haven't read Asimov or OSC yet), it won't really impact my enjoyment of Le Morte d'Arthur; I can respect the art without really respecting the artist. It is disappointing though, especially for a guy writing about chivalry. I'm used to this though. The conflict between chivalric ideals and reality has been a lifelong source of heartbreak...
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 PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:27 am Reply with quote  
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  Life Is The Path
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Cerrinea wrote:


Well, I wasn't aware of Dickens, but yes actually knowing about Asimov and OSC does affect my liking for their work. In Asimov's case, there's a long history there, and from some of his novels, it's obviously he knew that what he was doing was offensive, and he did it anyway. Also he doesn't get the age/era excuse. My dad was the same age and he didn't go around doing what Asimov did. Many men didn't. As for OSC, his behavior has been especially egregious to the point I can't support him by supporting his work. There are a couple others who I will not support because of really really bad behavior -- Roman Polanski being one. What these people have in common is not only bad behavior that harms others, but absolutely no remorse for the behavior.


I don't think the age/era excuse holds any water either. (And, while I can't remember saying that, if I had, I retract my statement and wholly condemn it.) However, they are dead. They derive no benefit, monetary or otherwise, from my enjoyment of their work, and I can happily deride the author, but respect, read and enjoy the books. Also, in Asimov's case, he did know, and was proud of it. In the case of Card, I, similar to Taral, will not read the book or watch the movie, and support Geeks Out boycott of it. I'm not usually a fan of boycotts, as I feel they're too passive and often don't (with some exceptions) financially hinder them enough to rethink their stances , but on this I feel it worthy enough to support.

Also, Caedus, while Card isn't dragging people through the mud and lynching them, he is on the board of a prominent anti-gay organisation, and has advocated the overthrow of any government that permits same-sex marriage:

Quote:
How long before married people answer the dictators thus: Regardless of law, marriage has only one definition, and any government that attempts to change it is my mortal enemy. I will act to destroy that government and bring it down, so it can be replaced with a government that will respect and support marriage, and help me raise my children in a society where they will expect to marry in their turn.


So, yeah, I don't think it's enough to say 'let him be'. He's not just using his right to free speech - which is fine - but is politically active in curtailing the rights of others. Not fine, by my book.
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 PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:05 am Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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I understand that he is on those boards, but he has been public about the fact that he knows his views are outdated and that he is part of a dying breed.

There are groups of people who just aren't going to change their minds no matter what techniques you use to influence them to change. I've met some of them. And like it or not OSC is entitled to his beliefs (I disagree with his btw). Its not ideal that he acts that way but its also his right and we have every right to hate it publicly, but he is still entitled to his opinion. Being mad isn't going to do anything to him, but hanging out with gay friends and being encouraging, donating time or money to rallies, or quietly influencing friends who are against it as well (this one works btw).

And OSC and Asimov's works will remain well written to this day. Separating the artist from the art is a big deal. Look at Van Gogh's paintings, would you ever think that he suffered from issues similar to extreme depression and bi-polar tendencies? He cut off pieces of himself, but his art is stunningly beautiful instead of dark and depressing. How many of you have watched Rosemary's Baby? The director, who had a lot of influence over the film (they always do), was under rape charges and had to flee the country is basically accepted as being guilty by everyone at large.

You have to be able to take one from the other. If you don't want to support these writers but still want to read them buy used, then they receive absolutely nothing from you and you get your books (and the person who bought it new was going to buy whether you like it or not). There are a lot of ways to pull that off in a modern setting, and remember that throughout history awful or tortured people have still been able to create wondrous things.
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 PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:10 am Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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Caedus, the problem with OSC is that he actively works to deny a specific group their civil rights. He's been publicly disavowed by his own religion. He's active in and financially supports an organization that has successfully gotten laws passed (since ruled unconstitutional) that discriminate against a specific group. Yes, he's entitled to his own opinions. He's even entitled to publicly say them. He is not, however, entitled to protection from the repercussions of his free speech. One of those repercussions is some people being unwilling to give him money so he can continue to actively hurt a specific group through legislation.

The Rosemary's Baby director you're referring to is Roman Polanski. Polanski was arrested and charged with statutory rape. He pleaded guilty to sex with a minor. He fled to Europe before he his sentencing. That was in 1977. Had it occurred today, it would have been a very different situation for Polanski because what he actually did was drug, rape and sodomize a 14 year old girl. Sorry, but I no longer have any appreciation for Polanski's work. His being a pedophile has that affect on me.
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