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 PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:12 pm Reply with quote  
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  MasterAndrew15
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Anakinlover89 wrote:
His thoughts on foreign relations really caught my eye the most.


Which one's that? Talking without pre-set limitations with Iran's President, who wants to "blow Israel off the face of the map." Perhaps it's taking our troops out of Iraq when the job is close but it's not completely done.
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 PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:15 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Quote:
Which one's that? Talking without pre-set limitations with Iran's President, who wants to "blow Israel off the face of the map." Perhaps it's taking our troops out of Iraq when the job is close but it's not completely done.


You're so brital SoS. Funny, insightful, and right, but oh so brutal... Wink
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 PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:19 pm Reply with quote  
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  MasterAndrew15
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I try But, really, is there one in particular, Anakinlover? I'm sure the Iraq one is big but I don't think people understand the effects of what Obama would like to do.
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 PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:29 pm Reply with quote  
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  Old Master Ben
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Caedus_16 wrote:
I'm not one to go along with the war we're in right now. We should've never invaded Iraq.
.


I agree completely. But we have to stop bringing this up. We did invade Iraq, and we can't go back and change that. What is important now is our next step.


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 PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:33 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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Mara Jade Skywalker wrote:
Do I detect sarcasm? Sorry, the grin threw me off...

Nope, no sarcasm intended.
P.S. I guess you are talking to me again. Wink
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 PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:29 am Reply with quote  
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  FatalFist
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Oh come on..Son of Skywalker...
You've been watching TOO MUCH FOX=p////
Clearly Obama got a landslide victory...and he deserved it....
Obamas wealth distribution makes sense...(ITS NOT COMMUNISM!!!!!!)
I already explained how it isnt......
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 PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:32 am Reply with quote  
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  MasterAndrew15
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Quote:
Clearly Obama got a landslide victory...and he deserved it....


Actually, the electoral count would it make it seem that way, but in popular vote it was only a 6% difference.

Quote:
Obamas wealth distribution makes sense...(ITS NOT COMMUNISM!!!!!!)
I already explained how it isnt......


It certainly is-- the way he wants it, and more specifically the way he sold it to the people, mirrors exactly what happened in Russia right before their civil war.... If I say it nice enough I could sell ice to an Eskimo.

By the way, this whole thing about Obama being a "world" President: that's nice and everything, but he's not; he's ours and he best act like it. I don't care about which Europeans we have on our side-- Britain and France owe us Wink Besides, Obama seems to favor Europe anyway.
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 PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:03 am Reply with quote  
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  FatalFist
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Come on..all he believes in is that the poor/middle class should be stronger....How is that communist...like i said before...the only reason he IS called a Socialist...is because of the company he used to keep...and hes guilty as charged the company was pathetic...but as hes already said...that was A LONG TIMe aGO....It takes a guy a day to change....and he has obviously changed....
_______________
This is how a Communist would think like=
1))))Rationing(This happened in Pak when Bhutto led us...and I hate him fr that)=Everyone gets this much Sugar,wheat,rice,etc,etc a month frm the Store...free of cost....U cant buy extra stuff...just give them ample proof abt how much ppl in ur family)
2))))Nationalization...were forced to give away their factories to the govt...in some cases the workers were the ones who shared the profit frm the factory and the govt told them what to do, and everything....
Now this is Communism.....NO Freedom=c
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 PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:03 am Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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The problem is not that we'll see a rise from the lower and middle class, its that we'll see a fall from the upper class. Money runs the world. We live in a capitalist society. Obama's plan is to take money from hard-working people and give it to lazy or apathetic people. We'll see a fall from the upper class (which could deal a final blow to our economy, crippling us) and we'll see the middle class fall lower both to avoid the taxes and to cash in on his distribution plan. Its quite scary actually. Hope none of you are in the basic or upper middle class cause you're screwed if you are. To those in the lower class, enjoy. To those who make a lot of money, sorry Obama want's you selling counterfit Rolexes on the street corner. Consult your friendly neighborhood hobo for begging advice.
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 PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:23 am Reply with quote  
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  Mara Jade Skywalker
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Reepicheep wrote:
P.S. I guess you are talking to me again. Wink


Well, yes...I suppose I'll talk to you again. Wink

Here's the thing about Obama's policy: Some of it may be helpful, but a lot of it will be hurtful. People who sit at home on their butts will get the money earned by people working hard every day. There are already too many people who collect welfare simply because they tapped into it through some loophole that they don't actually deserve. Granted, there are plenty of people who work hard and barely make ends meet, but there are now going to be so many that are getting what they shouldn't. I'm also afraid that the illegal immigrants will be getting even more money than they already do from the taxes we pay. Now...that's just speculation, and somebody stop me if that's incorrect.

For an example, though, here's what a guy said that I heard: He owns his own business and makes more than $250,000. But he does have to work hard to keep that business going. So, because of the new taxes he's going to have to let 6 people go and raise the prices associated with his business so he can keep up with the ridiculous taxes. Making it even harder for the middle and lower classes to be able to afford his products/services.

So when Obama begins to tax the rich, they're just going to jump their price to meet the taxes, and we still won't be able to afford whatever they offer. I have a sinking feeling this means gasoline is once again going to skyrocket, though perhaps worse this time.

I don't mean to spread doom and gloom, but this is just what I'm afraid of.
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 PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:25 am Reply with quote  
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  FatalFist
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Ive got 3 aunts in America...Virginia...all of'em are docters...and all of them will get a tax increase.....they voted for Obama...cuz clearly its better to hav a vibrant economy.
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The upper class doesnt loose anything!!!Who do you think buys stuff...STUFF/SERVICES...PPL DO Rolling Eyes ...do the math...there are more middle class ppl in America then the rich ones.....more ppl in the middle class are now able afford the stuff/services that is produced by the upper class.
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 PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:30 am Reply with quote  
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  Mara Jade Skywalker
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Well like I said...I don't know for positive how this is going to pan out (I don't know too much about economics and all that stuff), but that's just what I was afraid of.

Suppose will just how to see how it actually turns out, though. If it turns out to go really well, then I'll take it all back and be very happy. Smile
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 PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:52 am Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Obama will collapse a capitalist economy. Wealth distribution favors the lazy, and tax increase for those that work (notice I didn't say the 'wealthy?') will only make the whole country poorer. Sad but true.
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 PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:44 pm Reply with quote  
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  Salaris Vorn
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Son Of Skywalker wrote:
Quote:
You're being very presumptuous that I'm not aware of the news and it sounds like you're basing that on the fact that I'm liberal minded.


No, every source of information in the great state of New York is, save one or two papers.


Ok I just want to clarify here what you meant when you said this:

Quote:

Did you know that Sarah Palin was found innocent of the charges brought against her in Alaska? I doubt it-- I didn't see it anywhere in NY.


Now my initial take on this (and I'm still unsure if I misinterpreted) was that the statement was directed specifically at me citing the nature of NY news as the reason I wouldn't know about Palin being found innocent. This was what I was responding to, I wasn't trying to start a debate on NY news. I was defending myself against what I saw as an accusation that because I'm liberal mind and/or because of living in NY (that admittedly does have many liberal newspapers) I was ignorant of some news.

However based on your clarifying statement I'm now not sure if you're just taking a shot at NY news and I got caught in the line of fire. So I just want to clear up what you are exactly getting at.

Quote:

Quote:
And pretty much all of Europe is socialist to one degree or another unless I've completely gotten my facts wrong. So far they seem to be doing a lot better than we are


But guess what they all have as a common factor: they all use capitalism. Why Because socialism does not work-- it's pretty and nice on paper, as is communism, but it does not work alone and the only way to allow it to even have a chance is to allow some capitalism, like many communist and socialist countries have and do It doesn't work the other way around, however, and socialism cannot help capitalism, only capitalism can. Our President doesn't control the economy, we do. The youth of America want too much and they have been taught they can always have it, which is why we're having this issue; banks giving loans and the people know they can't pay it back but still think they are entitled to it.


But the point is that if we combine socialism with capitalism it won't destroy our country (al la Russia) if we do it they way Western Europe has. I'm citing Europe as an example that things aren't always black and white. Now correct me if I'm wrong but the basics as I understand it is Europe was capitalist and then merged their capitalism with socialism (not like say China that went communist and then has been forced to merge that with capitalism).

The point here being that you don't need a Russian revolution in order to get socialism and you can go from capitalism to a merge with socialism without destroying your country first. Unless I've been completely oblivious to world news I never heard of a grand revolution in Western Europe taking place when they switched from a more pure capitalism to a combination of capitalism and socialism.

I'm wondering though if we replaced our current welfare system with a modern version of the CCC would you be fine with that? I personally don't like our current welfare system either but don't see just doing away with it as a good solution either so I support bringing back the CCC to replace our current welfare system. That way people don't just get freebies and the tax payers' dollars are used for a purpose that benefits everyone.
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 PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:54 pm Reply with quote  
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  Old Master Ben
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I think we need to stop calling Obama's policy communism, because nobody ever said it is. It's called socialism. And his past associates were not connected to communism. Rather, terrorism and radical preaching that blames the white community and government for crazy things.


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