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| Mara Jade Skywalker wrote: |
This is brilliantly written. I agree with almost everything you said, and finally someone was able to spell out the thoughts that were all jumbled up inside my head. I am, however, ridiculously tired, and do not care to expound at this moment. I shall do so at a later date.  |
Alright, time to address this, like two months after I said it. 
| LivingJediDream wrote: |
I liked the idea that either Starkiller was a clone of the child, taken months before the first game; or that Vader simply goes through Starkillers like nothing and Subject 1138 is literally that number clone.
However, I think both possibilities have been nixed by TFU2. I thought the first one was especially interesting because it would create the possibility that little Galen Marek could grow up to be in his forties c. FOTJ. Or as I theorized at TFN, a Jedi you may have heard of named Jaden Korr (homeworld: Coruscant), although that is theoretically possible in the second scenario under the premise that he's a clone (hence constructing a lightsaber on his own). It would explain a lot.... especially with Crosscurrent. |
This. This right here is what stopped me in my tracks. I love it! Is it crazy? Yes. But the idea that Jaden Korr, a favorite character of mine, could be Galen Marek, also a favorite character of mine, just blew my mind. It never even occurred to me until you said it. And I'm loving it.
The likelihood of this is extremely low, but I'm loving the implications. As you said, it would explain a lot, especially with Crosscurrent. If Paul S. Kemp comes out with Riptide and ties Jaden Korr back to Galen Marek with the whole clone angle, I will officially be the happiest and most shell-shocked Star Wars fan on the planet. 
| LivingJediDream wrote: |
| As for the clone issue in TFU2, my interpretation that he was the original was based entirely upon the novel and the game and its light side ending. Kota goes to great lengths to convince Starkiller it's impossible he's a clone, all the other clones are aberrant and messed up, in spite of Vader allegedly destroying the failures, and Starkiller has already been revived from death once. |
Agreed, I was under the impression he was the original, mainly based upon the fact that he's not crazy. However, is Vader lying in saying that all the other clones are failures? Does he go through them like nothing and this is indeed Clone 1138? I could see it. But I'd much rather see that he's the original Starkiller. How did he survive? I don't know, but who's to say he was ever actually dead?
| LivingJediDream wrote: |
| The idea that the Dark Apprentice is a perfect clone doesn't wash with me, because the protagonist is more like the original than the Dark Apprentice, so it seems to me that the protagonist is the perfect clone. In what way is he imperfect? Those at TFN that have argued with me about this claim that the Dark Apprentice is called a perfect clone because he turned to the dark side and/or didn't fall for Juno. I just took that as further evidence that he was Infinities only, along with "Distant Thunder." If the clone is less like the original, that makes him less a copy, and more imperfect. |
This is exactly what I was thinking. First off, I don't think there's any such thing as a perfect clone. However, if we're going to go with the fact that Starkiller is indeed a clone, then I would certainly think that the one that behaved most like him would be considered more perfect. The fact that the Dark Apprentice was as different as he was tells me that he's an altered specimen. However, perhaps this is what Vader wanted. Consider this: Vader experimented with the original Starkiller, but came to find that he didn't have enough control over an actual human being. Like the Clones in the Clone Wars, he needed not only someone he could manipulate from birth, but someone he could manipulate genetically to do his bidding. There are two possibilities I see with this line of thought:
1. Starkiller is the real dude, and Vader's giving him another chance. Because like it or not, the real deal is just better than a clone. But just in case, he has an altered clone waiting in the wings to step in if Starkiller messes up.
2. Starkiller is a clone, but an unaltered version. Like the above scenario, Vader keeps an altered version waiting just in case.
I think it's an interesting possibility, anyway. Considering that's what they did in the Clone Wars.
| LivingJediDream wrote: |
| My impression upon getting the dark side ending was that it retroactively altered the entire premise to the story, because if it didn't, then where is the Dark Apprentice in the light side ending? Those at TFN think he just didn't appear because he didn't have to do so. I honestly don't buy it. And I don't understand why Vader would go to the effort to recover the protagonist if he's just a failure, given he has a huge facility full of failures and is apparently pumping out clones constantly. |
Exactly. Which makes me think he's not a failure, and not a clone. Vader still knows that the original Starkiller is the best, despite his disobedient ways, and he wants him back. The Dark Side ending honestly makes no sense to me no matter how you look at it. I just don't like it.
| LivingJediDream wrote: |
As for Lemelisk, I am guessing the first time he died was after Episode IV due to the destruction of the Death Star.
As for Vader cloning himself, I imagine he didn't do so for the same reason why it bit Palpatine in the butt. The clones, for what I am assuming is the same reason Kota and the Khommites and so forth were arguing against cloning Force sensitives, were inferior to the original body. Perhaps the Force, via the midi-chlorians, rejects the clone as being a duplicate, so since a Force sensitive has a higher count they feel the adverse effects more acutely (i.e. the midi-chlorians mess with the clone, so having a lot physically messes up the clone, but having an ordinary midi count is too low to affect them). Vader probably felt it was safer to stick with his more damaged body than to risk his clone body falling apart and having to continually switch, lest he come across the same situation Palpatine did of running out of clones due to losing his cylinders. Plus in Shadows of the Empire, Vader thought he would eventually be able to heal his own body. |
See, I find this quite intriguing. It makes for a very good argument why Vader would never clone himself. Or any Force-sensitive, for that matter. The fact that the Force would reject a clone is quite brilliant! I never would have thought of that. A non-Force-sensitive wouldn't have to worry about this, but it would affect all clones able to touch the Force. It would almost be like trying to use an authenticaton key on a product. When you connect to the internet, the key is immediately scanned to see if there is a duplicate. If so, the key is rejected. But without an internet connection, this would never be a problem, because there would be no way for the key to be verified. In the same way, the clones with Force-sensitivity run into the problem of the Force itself going, "Wait, what's this? We already have a being with this particular make-up. There can't be two." And repercussions ensue.
So, indeed, I find all of your ponderings quite intriguing. I'd like to expound on it more at a later date, but for now I must grab some sleep.
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"It's not about the legacy you leave, it's about the life you live." ~Mara Jade Skywalker
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