Darth_Henning wrote:

Now you see, I don't have a problem with the Jedi slaughtering Sith as required. It is war, and sometimes you have to realize that you have no choice and not every sith can be redeemed (I'm actually glad that they've stopped trying to force that on every one of them of late). So that doesn't bother me.

I don't mind Jedi killing Sith, but the sheer numbers in Apocalypse started to make me feel uneasy. Also the "Surrender or die" message seemed kind of... I don't know the word. It reminded me of when I played with knights as kid. Of course, I knew that a knight couldn't kill an unarmed enemy, so I'd make the knight toss his enemy a sword before running him through. I realized the absurdity of this pretty quickly and stopped doing it. It's like Denning wants to show carnage, but he realizes that murder isn't the Jedi way... so the Jedi will just send each Sith a warning and then kill them almost immediately after. We sent them a warning, so our hands are clean! It makes you wonder what would have happened if a Sith did surrender. Or if they even had the time to figure out what was happening.

Darth_Henning wrote:

But your point about Allana forgetting by the next book is a good one. This should be a good point to make a real impact on the character and use it to really build a change in her about growing up from the protected, ideolized existance she thought she had to a painfully adult perspective on the war. If its just discarded then it is indeed a waste. But if it actually is taken to heart in characterization, I don't see it as a bad thing.

Yes, it depends on how they handle it. It could work out well, but if Allana shrugs it off and is all rainbows and butterflies in the next book, I'll be annoyed. We'll see.

Reepicheep wrote:

[spoiler] Darth_Henning wrote: Now you see, I don't have a problem with the Jedi slaughtering Sith as required. It is war, and sometimes you have to realize that you have no choice and not every sith can be redeemed (I'm actually glad that they've stopped trying to force that on every one of them of late). So that doesn't bother me. I don't mind Jedi killing Sith, but the sheer numbers in Apocalypse started to make me feel uneasy. Also the "Surrender or die" message seemed kind of... I don't know the word. It reminded me of when I played with knights as kid. Of course, I knew that a knight couldn't kill an unarmed enemy, so I'd make the knight toss his enemy a sword before running him through. I realized the absurdity of this pretty quickly and stopped doing it. It's like Denning wants to show carnage, but he realizes that murder isn't the Jedi way... so the Jedi will just send each Sith a warning and then kill them almost immediately after. We sent them a warning, so our hands are clean! It makes you wonder what would have happened if a Sith did surrender. Or if they even had the time to figure out what was happening.

I think the point in this is that all the Sith they were shown to kill after that message went instantly for their weapons to fight, implying that they would have to be killed one way or another. So its easier to assassinate them then to risk losing Jedi you can't afford in defeating them, especially since they have a distinct numerical advantage. Admittedly its a grey area, but saddly it seems to be practicality that's winning out over ethics.

I think the scene with the Sith pretending to be a judge sort of shows what would happen if they surrendered. No violence on the part of the Jedi, and probably some form of arrest and imprisionment (though I'm not sure how they'd manage that.

Reepicheep wrote:

Darth_Henning wrote: But your point about Allana forgetting by the next book is a good one. This should be a good point to make a real impact on the character and use it to really build a change in her about growing up from the protected, ideolized existance she thought she had to a painfully adult perspective on the war. If its just discarded then it is indeed a waste. But if it actually is taken to heart in characterization, I don't see it as a bad thing. Yes, it depends on how they handle it. It could work out well, but if Allana shrugs it off and is all rainbows and butterflies in the next book, I'll be annoyed. We'll see.

That will make a major difference. It could either be a great opportunity for character growth and a look at a real human problem. or it could be a wasted opportunity. Time will tell.
[/spoiler]

Darth_Henning wrote:

I think the point in this is that all the Sith they were shown to kill after that message went instantly for their weapons to fight, implying that they would have to be killed one way or another. So its easier to assassinate them then to risk losing Jedi you can't afford in defeating them, especially since they have a distinct numerical advantage. Admittedly its a grey area, but saddly it seems to be practicality that's winning out over ethics.

Maybe it wouldn't have bothered me as much if it was presented more as a grey area. I think there was some acknowledgement, but to me it was drowned out by Jedi being BA.

With regard to the Jedi not knowing about the One Sith before the events of Legacy, and Apocalypse breaking that canon, I've reread Legacy to see if there's anything to break. There wasn't. The only time that said their existence was unknown to the Jedi was during the events of LOTF. The time between that and Legacy is left alone, for obvious reasons. All other references to it uses ambiguous words like 'emerged', 'hidden' or 'revealed' or 'made themselves known'. Such words do not denote that their existence was unknown, despite the seemingly unambiguous phrasing of that last - it was still used ambiguously along the same lines as the word 'revealed'.

Actually I would read things like 'revealed' and 'made themselves known' as them becoming known to the galaxy when they were previously unknown to anyone. Emerging from hiding suggests that no one knew. And Luke knows now, so how in the world is he not gonna hunt for this super-powerful Sith he just met Beyond Shadows? It breaks some definite canon.

I like the idea of the Sith being in hiding and by the time the Jedi start suspecting them, it's too late for them to do anything about it. It just seems very Sith-like to me. It's what the Banite Sith did after all. Life, I think you're right that a technical reading of Legacy, leaves the door open to the Sith revealing themselves during the FotJ era, but I always got the sense that the Sith would remain in hiding for far longer.

While I'm not a fan of the Legacy comics I liked that aspect of it. Personally, I would actually be happy if the Legacy comics become non-canon, but there are some things I would like them to keep (Sith in hiding, Fel Empire etc.).

[quote="Reepicheep"]As much as I enjoyed aspects of Legacy, I don't really want to spend the next 30+ years of novels just getting to that point. Its been 20 years since the EU started in earnest, and we've covered basically 45 years post ANH. (including a missing decade of stories between NJO and LOTF, and most of the end of the war between the NR and Empire). We need to cover another 90 years to reach Legacy.

Knowing what the books are going to build towards for at least 30 (probably closer to 40) years will take a lot of the enjoyment out of Star Wars for me. There's a lot of limitations to what people can do with the stories. Its not impossible of course, but not convenient.

Given that it was implied that the deeat of Abeloth has changed the future, logically that would change where things were going. I like the idea of Legacy being Jacen's vision that he was trying to preent. It ties in very well with LOTF then and still gives it a lot of value with Canon. But it doesn't tie things down.

The one sith cannot possibly remain hidden for 90 years without someone stumbling across them, especially since Luke knows to look for them and they keep sending agents out into the galaxy (See Crosscurrent/Riptide). Bane's order survived because the Jedi thought they were dead and were not looking for them. Krayt's being known will not allow that to occur. Especially with the Kesh sith out there that Luke is hunting, and Vestara headed to Korriban. There is precisely ZERO chance that Ben and Luke won't look for her.

I just can't see Legacy remaining Canon. It doesn't work either in-universe or in real life.