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 PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:55 am Reply with quote  
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  Dancelittleewok
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Caedus_16 wrote:
Lol I've learned recently from several of my female friends that at our age its not our personality that matters so much. My friends are some of the nicest guys on the face of this earth, but they aren't 6.5 feet tall with 6-packs and sadly these days that's pretty much checkmate till they're 30. But nice guys are everywhere, you just have to spend time getting to know them.


Actually, what matters the most to me isn't looks or personality. A guy could have a six pack and a wonderful personality, but if he doesn't respect me, then things can only get worse from there. Respect sets the entire tone of a relationship.
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Last edited by Dancelittleewok on Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:56 am; edited 1 time in total


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 PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:56 am Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Dancelittleewok wrote:
Caedus_16 wrote:
Lol I've learned recently from several of my female friends that at our age its not our personality that matters so much. My friends are some of the nicest guys on the face of this earth, but they aren't 6.5 feet tall with 6-packs and sadly these days that's pretty much checkmate till they're 30. But nice guys are everywhere, you just have to spend time getting to know them.


Actually, what matters the most to me isn't looks or personality. A guy could have a six pack and a wonderful personality, but if he doesn't respect me, then the relationship can only get worse from there. Respect sets the entire tone of a relationship.


Its good to know people like you still exist. I don't see as many these days.
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 PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:09 pm Reply with quote  
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  Salaris Vorn
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Caedus_16 wrote:
Dancelittleewok wrote:
Caedus_16 wrote:
Lol I've learned recently from several of my female friends that at our age its not our personality that matters so much. My friends are some of the nicest guys on the face of this earth, but they aren't 6.5 feet tall with 6-packs and sadly these days that's pretty much checkmate till they're 30. But nice guys are everywhere, you just have to spend time getting to know them.


Actually, what matters the most to me isn't looks or personality. A guy could have a six pack and a wonderful personality, but if he doesn't respect me, then the relationship can only get worse from there. Respect sets the entire tone of a relationship.


Its good to know people like you still exist. I don't see as many these days.


This just got me thinking but by "respect" what do you (general you) mean?

I know it may seem like a really odd question so let me explain: a week or so ago I ran into a female grad student in my department at the supermarket. She proceeded to tell me about how at her apartment they are doing construction and that she really disliked the workers because almost all of them didn't treat her with respect.

As she elaborated she perceived that they were patronizing her as a woman by offering to do things like help her carry her groceries up or holding doors open for her (she interpreted such acts as implicitly stating that, because she was a woman, she was not capable of doing these things without a man's help or at least not able of performing these tasks as efficiently/easily on her own as she would be with a man's help).

So my question basically is probing at the issues she brought up: how are we defining "respect"? Do we mean in the old fashioned sense of carrying groceries or holding doors open as a sign of respect or do we mean respect in the apparently more modern sense? Obviously there are the cases of women who go for guys who aren't respectful under any definition but there does seem to be two very different competing views of what is and isn't respectful behavior.
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 PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:30 pm Reply with quote  
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  Mara Jade Skywalker
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I mean no disrespect toward the girl, but that's just silly. I can be a feminist at times, my friends have even labeled me as one, as I apparently have the strongest feelings on the matter. But I am more than flattered when a guy offers to help me or hold a door for me.
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 PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:03 pm Reply with quote  
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  Taral-DLOS
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Admittedly, the offer of carrying groceries up is a bit sketch. Not because it's disrespectful (I don't think it is on its face) but because it implicitly comes with an invitation into the apartment to put the groceries down, and maybe she shouldn't want strangers in her apartment.

Holding doors open though is a perfectly respectful thing to do. I do it all the time. Heck, I do it for anyone who is walking behind me through the door, regardless of gender. It's only sketch if you see a woman going to a door, and running ahead of her to grab it.

And even then, neither of those are disrespectful. Just sketch.
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 PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:22 pm Reply with quote  
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  Dancelittleewok
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Salaris Vorn wrote:
Caedus_16 wrote:
Dancelittleewok wrote:
Caedus_16 wrote:
Lol I've learned recently from several of my female friends that at our age its not our personality that matters so much. My friends are some of the nicest guys on the face of this earth, but they aren't 6.5 feet tall with 6-packs and sadly these days that's pretty much checkmate till they're 30. But nice guys are everywhere, you just have to spend time getting to know them.


Actually, what matters the most to me isn't looks or personality. A guy could have a six pack and a wonderful personality, but if he doesn't respect me, then the relationship can only get worse from there. Respect sets the entire tone of a relationship.


Its good to know people like you still exist. I don't see as many these days.


This just got me thinking but by "respect" what do you (general you) mean?

I know it may seem like a really odd question so let me explain: a week or so ago I ran into a female grad student in my department at the supermarket. She proceeded to tell me about how at her apartment they are doing construction and that she really disliked the workers because almost all of them didn't treat her with respect.

As she elaborated she perceived that they were patronizing her as a woman by offering to do things like help her carry her groceries up or holding doors open for her (she interpreted such acts as implicitly stating that, because she was a woman, she was not capable of doing these things without a man's help or at least not able of performing these tasks as efficiently/easily on her own as she would be with a man's help).


She's alluding to benevolent sexism:

Quote:
Cross-national comparisons show that hostile and benevolent sexism go hand-in-hand (that is, nations that endorse hostile sexism also endorse benevolent sexism). The beliefs work together because benevolent sexism "rewards" women when they fulfill traditional roles whereas hostile sexism punishes women who do not toe the line, thereby working together to maintain traditional relations. In other words, act sweet and they'll pat you on the head; assert yourself and they'll put you in your place.

(Source: Science Daily)

I'll answer your last question and respond to others' comments when I return from the library.
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 PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:46 pm Reply with quote  
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  Autobon
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-

maybe someone should start a thread on feminism...

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 PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:03 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Dancelittleewok wrote:


She's alluding to benevolent sexism:



Its slightly sexist to assume every man who is polite enough to hold a door is being sexist...
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 PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:58 pm Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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Here's a another definition that this thread has brought to mind:

Urban Dictionary "Nice Guy Syndrome:

A annoying mental condition in which a heterosexual man concocts over simplified ideas why women aren’t flocking to him in droves. Typically this male will whine and complain about how women never want to date them because he is “too nice” or that he is average in appearance. He often targets a woman who is already in a relationship; misrepresenting his intentions of wanting to be her friend and having the expectation that he is owed more than friendship because he is such a good listener. He is prone to brooding over this and passive aggressive behavior."
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 PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:40 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Dog-Poop_Walker wrote:
Here's a another definition that this thread has brought to mind:

Urban Dictionary "Nice Guy Syndrome:

A annoying mental condition in which a heterosexual man concocts over simplified ideas why women aren’t flocking to him in droves. Typically this male will whine and complain about how women never want to date them because he is “too nice” or that he is average in appearance. He often targets a woman who is already in a relationship; misrepresenting his intentions of wanting to be her friend and having the expectation that he is owed more than friendship because he is such a good listener. He is prone to brooding over this and passive aggressive behavior."


You have NO IDEA how many people I know like this. The consequences of knowing nerds who don't wanna put in the effort I suppose.
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 PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:41 am Reply with quote  
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  Dancelittleewok
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Caedus_16 wrote:
Dancelittleewok wrote:


She's alluding to benevolent sexism:



Its slightly sexist to assume every man who is polite enough to hold a door is being sexist...


I don't think every girl that's carrying groceries or is near a door needs help either. Confused
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 PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:48 am Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Dancelittleewok wrote:
Caedus_16 wrote:
Dancelittleewok wrote:


She's alluding to benevolent sexism:



Its slightly sexist to assume every man who is polite enough to hold a door is being sexist...


I don't think every girl that's carrying groceries or is near a door needs help either. Confused


Probably not, but I hold doors for anyone, man or woman, who needs a door opened or who is walking behind me. Problem is the women who get mad only thing about the sexism thing, not knowing that I'm just polite to everyone, kind of burying the hatchet in the idea that there is good feminism and feminism that is out of control.
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 PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:23 pm Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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Caedus_16 wrote:
Probably not, but I hold doors for anyone, man or woman, who needs a door opened or who is walking behind me. Problem is the women who get mad only thing about the sexism thing, not knowing that I'm just polite to everyone, kind of burying the hatchet in the idea that there is good feminism and feminism that is out of control.


Caedus, I'm calling you on that statement. I think negating the legitimate complaints of sexism with that statement is kind of along the lines of telling POCs there's no racism because a vocal few see it even in places it doesn't exist.

Besides, I ascribe to the belief that it's the victims of discrimination who get to set the terms of what it is; not the majority who never experience it.
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 PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:09 pm Reply with quote  
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  Autobon
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Caedus_16 wrote:
I hold doors for anyone, man or woman, who needs a door opened or who is walking behind me. Problem is the women who get mad only thing about the sexism thing, not knowing that I'm just polite to everyone, kind of burying the hatchet in the idea that there is good feminism and feminism that is out of control.


I wholeheartedly agree. Unfortunately, there are a number of insecure people that feel victimized in even the most ridiculous circumstances.

Its best to leave these people to their own devices - continuing to think that they are perhaps the only ones in the world that have ever been discriminated against, and that somehow, it gives them an obligation to be pretentious jerks towards any well-intentioned individual.

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 PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:33 pm Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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I'm pretty sure someone who thinks that they are the subject of sexism doesn't think they are the only person in the world who has ever been discriminated against, they probably feel like it's a widespread social problem effecting an entire group of people, which is why there is a word for it pertaining to that exact phenomenon and a philosophy to counteract it.

It's usually someone of a privileged group that has never been the subject of institutional and societal group discrimination who suffers a perceived personal setback that feels a sense of insecurity and overblown victimization.
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