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Han Solo - A Ruined Character?

Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:54 pm
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Old Master Ben Administrator Joined: 10 Nov 2007 Posts: 2254 Location: Georgia The other night I was having a conversation with a certain Firefly fan *cough* VileZero *cough*, and he claimed that a character from that show was cooler than Han Solo. In fact, he said that this character was what Han Solo should have been. Now, I've never watched Firefly, so I can't compare the two characters. What I did want to do was see if you all agree or disagree that Han Solo didn't live up to his potential. Basically, he was set up as a no-rules scoundrel guy who was all sorts of awesome in A New Hope. I'm told by a certain fan *cough* VileZero *cough* that he mellows out too much in ESB and ROTJ, and doesn't become the amazing character that he should have been. I think this is a little silly. Han needed to develop in the later episodes. He was shown as so immature and selfish in A New Hope for a reason, and that reason wasn't to establish him as that sort of character forever. It was to give him a starting place that we could look back at and say "yeah, he really did develop". What do you think?

Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:08 pm
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YodaBauer2442 Knight Joined: 06 Apr 2011 Posts: 309 Location: Sofa I'm not overly familiar with the character (I'm assuming it's Nathan Fillion's character). However, there's nothing wrong with Han in any one the films. I feel that while his character does develop, he's still Han. I think it's more that he doesn't have much of a chance to be a scoundrel in RotJ. He's starts off frozen, moves to carbon sickness and ends up leading a group of rebels. He still acts very much himself on Endor but I think he's very focused because they are so close to victory. That's not mellowing out, it's being smart, and Han was always street smart.

Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:28 pm
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Old Master Ben Administrator Joined: 10 Nov 2007 Posts: 2254 Location: Georgia That's a good point. Han was a little busy in ROTJ, and he was a pretty good scoundrel in Empire Strikes Back. I guess the problem may be that he loses the killer instinct, the unbeatable swagger that he had in ANH. Once he gets to Bespin, he doesn't seem so invincible. I'd say that's a good thing.

Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:39 pm
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YodaBauer2442 Knight Joined: 06 Apr 2011 Posts: 309 Location: Sofa Same. Also, everyone wants to seem invincible in the cantina. It's a "Shoot First" sort of place. He never seems cut throat once they leave Tatooine. Sure, he wants money. But he's a smuggler, that's his job.

Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:41 pm
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Rouge77 Master Joined: 22 Mar 2008 Posts: 599 Only the later EU did destroy Han's character; he was fine in the movies and in the early EU. But then his character lost first direction after the Bantam years - just like Leia did - and then he was character assassinated in LotF. Now he's just like a caricature of himself. When it comes to Firefly, I never saw Reynolds the captain as tough or cynical as Han was in the beginning of ANH, and if Firefly would have been let to survive in other forms than comics I believe that his character evolution would have been very similar to that of Han's. After all, he is modeled after Han... _________________ Against apartheid, against racism, against Israel.

Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:13 pm
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VileZero Master Joined: 21 Mar 2010 Posts: 813 Location: Maryland Well, the special editions kill Han's credibility as a badass when he no longer shoots first. He's still a decent scoundrel, but I really feel like he mellowed out in ESB and ROTJ. I love Captain Mal, and he's a solid scoundrel and smuggler in Firefly and Serenity. Now, could his character have changed with huge exposure like Han in the EU? Certainly! But as it stands, I think Mal is a better representative of the scoundrel than Han is.

Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:42 pm
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Reepicheep Master Joined: 05 Feb 2008 Posts: 5958 Location: Sailing into the unknown Am I the only one who likes Han and Leia in the Legacy era? _________________ Where sky and water meet, Where the waves grow sweet, Doubt not, Reepicheep, To find all you seek, There is the utter east.

Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:22 pm
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Queen Padmè Skywalker Master Joined: 17 Jul 2009 Posts: 4926 Location: Sitting in front of a fireplace on Naboo exchanging pathetic dialogue with Anakin No, Reep, you are not. But I did dislike him in the later Bantam era and mid NJO. _________________ All things die, Anakin Skywalker, even stars burn out. So this is how liberty dies....with thunderous applause. Those without swords can still die upon them The world is a mess and I just need to rule it.

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:35 am
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Mara Jade Skywalker Master Joined: 15 Feb 2008 Posts: 5359 Location: Beyond Shadows Han Solo forever! What is this talk of treason? I heard Zero's proclamation that whoever it was was the character Han should have been. And do I agree? No! Next to Mara Jade Skywalker, Han will always be my favorite character. Movie-wise, he takes the cake. Hands down. _________________ "It's not about the legacy you leave, it's about the life you live." ~Mara Jade Skywalker

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:41 am
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VileZero Master Joined: 21 Mar 2010 Posts: 813 Location: Maryland Mara Jade Skywalker wrote: Han Solo forever! What is this talk of treason? I heard Zero's proclamation that whoever it was was the character Han should have been. And do I agree? No! Next to Mara Jade Skywalker, Han will always be my favorite character. Movie-wise, he takes the cake. Hands down. Well it's hard to debate it when you haven't watched Firefly.

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:45 am
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Mara Jade Skywalker Master Joined: 15 Feb 2008 Posts: 5359 Location: Beyond Shadows Funny thing, I have Firefly here with me right now. Just got it from the library this week. But I haven't managed to watch it yet. Now I'm even more intrigued, though. Just need to find time. _________________ "It's not about the legacy you leave, it's about the life you live." ~Mara Jade Skywalker

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:45 am
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Rouge77 Master Joined: 22 Mar 2008 Posts: 599 Reepicheep wrote: Am I the only one who likes Han and Leia in the Legacy era? They are utterly wasted... For some reason authors don't come up with anything useful for them to do, can't kill them, so they fly around changing sides and babysitting. Leia's Jedi career hasn't been explored basically at all and Han hasn't had a career of any kind since he fought Zsinj! Even during LotF, which was supposedly about the fall (and death) of their son, they were sidelined. Jacen was used to just bring more screen time for the Skywalkers, and the Solos - to whom the impact should have been much bigger overall, at least until the end of Sacrifice - were left to do the usual flying around and changing sides in every second book. The possibilities there were for Han and Leia -storylines were utterly wasted in an effort to promote lil' Ben instead of looking at the impact of Jacen's tragedy to his parents. So we get the grotesque Han of LotF, sabotaging Tenel Ka's attempt to persuade Jacen to stand back by starting to bellow how he himself would just shoot Jacen and not talk to him... And then they went on to support the killing of their only surviving son, when they otherwise are portrayed incapable of killing even their worst enemies, like Nom Anor who was behind the deaths of Chewbacca and Anakin. Total character assassination. _________________ Against apartheid, against racism, against Israel.

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:56 am
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Reepicheep Master Joined: 05 Feb 2008 Posts: 5958 Location: Sailing into the unknown I don't know, I knd of like how they're not tied down. Han can only be a smuggler for so long and I never liked Leia as a politician. _________________ Where sky and water meet, Where the waves grow sweet, Doubt not, Reepicheep, To find all you seek, There is the utter east.

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 1:51 pm
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Nedara Knight Joined: 08 Apr 2011 Posts: 396 I don't think Han was exactly a waste during LotF and FotJ. In fact, I think we saw a very human face of the Solos we didn't see before. I mean, the way Han react to Jacen's fall -I always thoungt he blamed himself- it's quite "human", far away from a hero.

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:07 pm
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Rouge77 Master Joined: 22 Mar 2008 Posts: 599 Nedara wrote: I don't think Han was exactly a waste during LotF and FotJ. In fact, I think we saw a very human face of the Solos we didn't see before. I mean, the way Han react to Jacen's fall -I always thoungt he blamed himself- it's quite "human", far away from a hero. If only he would have blamed himself... The problem to me in LotF with Han was that first in Betrayal Han was made to blame the Jedi for Anakin's death when it was his call in SbS whether the mission would proceed with the kids. His call, he sent his own teenage children on a suicide mission which would kill Anakin and lead to Jacen's capture and torture, and now he suddenly blamed the Jedi. Then in rest of LotF he acted like a shapeshifter would have taken his place. He made no attempt to reach to Jacen (which he had finally done in NJO with Anakin just before Anakin's death after having blamed Anakin for Chewbacca's death for the entire first half of the series) and was ready to abandon him already in Exile, when Leia did that "only" in Inferno. After the bombing of Kashyyyk Han's biggest problem seemed to be that Wookiees had "respected him" before, but wouldn't do so after what Jacen had done. Not what would had become and what would happen to his son. (Or what had happened to the Kashyyyk inhabitants beyond them not respecting him anymore.) Then he supported Jacen's killing in Invincible, but was oh so concerned about Ben after finding out Luke's vision about Ben being captured. Ben, whose plan it was to target civilian centers on Kashyyyk in the first place. It was fine for him and the rest of the family to decide to kill his own son, but according to Han it was wrong for Luke to put his own teenage son on a dangerous mission - Han having apparently forgotten altogether Myrkr, Anakin and his own similar decision. In MF he was made, two years after Jacen's death, to think that he couldn't forgive Jacen what Jacen had did. It tasted bad in my opinion. Carrying a grudge against his own dead son for two years after his killing, which he himself supported - that's not the Han I liked to watch and to read about. _________________ Against apartheid, against racism, against Israel.

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