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 PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:41 am Reply with quote  
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  Jedi Joe
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I'm bittersweet about this. I would rather have a ST than a post-RotJ EU, no doubt about it, but there are so many great characters and stories presumably being thrown out with this decision. I just hope for the sake of the fans that they bring back characters like Mara Jade for the new films.

I am very supportive of the move, though. There was no way they could have fit the ST into the existing EU without providing a large backstory.
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 PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:20 am Reply with quote  
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  Alan Skywalker V
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The new books and movies are going to have to be damn good to get me even remotely interested in the new EU. If the material's good enough and holds my interest like the old stuff did, I might - might, mind you - invest in the new EU.

But even if I do, I am definitely NOT getting rid of ANY of the old material and already own - in fact, I'm going to keep collecting so I can "finish", to some extent, what I don't have from the "Legends" EU.

Some people on TF.N have said, and I agree with them, that while the new EU may be coherent for a while, eventually it will likely devolve into a mess like the "Legends" did - no matter how much damage control there is.


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 PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:14 pm Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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Alan Skywalker V wrote:
Some people on TF.N have said, and I agree with them, that while the new EU may be coherent for a while, eventually it will likely devolve into a mess like the "Legends" did - no matter how much damage control there is.

That's exactly what I think. Short term gain, long term loss.
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 PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:42 pm Reply with quote  
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  YodaBauer2442
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Weirdly enough, I'm kinda excited to be able to experience the EU as it happens as opposed to being constantly behind with a mountain to catch up to. In terms of canon anyway.

Still, there's a lot of reading I wanted to do that I'll probably be less motivated to do now.
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 PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:18 pm Reply with quote  
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  Timtimtim
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The literary expanded universe has always been sustained by the community. I don't see why Disney declaring it invalid should stop this. First, we have the reader community to keep track of the literary canon and make sure it doesn't get overwhelmed by the new canon.

Second, and perhaps more importantly, writers are going to respond to reader demand. Since we now have this "Legends" banner, it should be very straight forward to petition the powers that be to generate a new Legends universe work.

Barring this, let's remember that this is the 21st century. We have kickstarter and countless fiction-hosting sites. I see a pretty clear path forward:
Form a community-run canon council
Decide what books we want (presumably through reader or writer petitions)
Fund them through kickstarter
"Publish" them essentially as fanfic with the canon council's seal

Web-based artists in other media have done perfectly well under similar models, so it shouldn't be too hard for the writers to keep sustaining themselves.
I know I'm proposing a fanbase version of the Great Schism, but it's time. It's not Lucas's story anymore, and I don't think any of us thought it was ever going to be Disney's story. It's ours.

P.S.: Been away for a while. Even had to register a new account. Sorry if I miss the acronyms.
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 PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:28 am Reply with quote  
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  Life Is The Path
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Quote:
But even if I do, I am definitely NOT getting rid of ANY of the old material and already own


No one is asking you to.
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 PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:44 am Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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Timtimtim wrote:
Barring this, let's remember that this is the 21st century. We have kickstarter and countless fiction-hosting sites. I see a pretty clear path forward:
Form a community-run canon council
Decide what books we want (presumably through reader or writer petitions)
Fund them through kickstarter
"Publish" them essentially as fanfic with the canon council's seal

I'll just remind you of that time costumers tried to sell Stormtrooper suits and were sued by Lucasfilm...
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 PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:20 am Reply with quote  
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  Timtimtim
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DarthMRN wrote:

I'll just remind you of that time costumers tried to sell Stormtrooper suits and were sued by Lucasfilm...


Going through a fanfic outlet would prevent copyright violations, as far as I know.
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 PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:36 am Reply with quote  
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  Skywalker2B
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So it's now been almost 2 days since the bomb dropped. As we now know, after they dropped the bomb (that we pretty much all knew was coming...for example: the Rebellion and Empire books and Star Wars comic series...they pretty much alluded to what was gonna happen when the chosen authors confessed that they didn't know much at all about the existing EU and that was what DR and DH were looking for) they almost immediately announce the first 4 upcoming books (all but one taking place before ANH). Here are a few "positive" thoughts I had on this...

1. I like the covers of the new books.
2. It looks like they'll be using some of the same authors.
3. In the announcement(s) they stated that they will be using some things from the original EU (ISB, Siennar Fleet Systems, etc.). And considering how much EU was in TCW, the PT, and even the Special Editions (i.e. the Outrider), I'm sure that we'll see more EU stuff brought into the "NewU" than we expect. I even expect to see some EU elements in the ST.
4. Answering the following question is now MUCH easier...for a while anyway: Q: "I'm new to the EU, where do I start reading?" A: "A New Dawn"

I'm sure there are more positive points, but those were the ones that I've thought of this weekend.


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 PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:56 pm Reply with quote  
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  GrandMaster
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Wookieepedia has a page collecting Jennifer Heddle's tweets regarding what is canon and not.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Toprawa_and_Ralltiir/Canon
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 PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:06 pm Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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Timtimtim wrote:
Going through a fanfic outlet would prevent copyright violations, as far as I know.

I'll admit I read your mention of publishing to mean physical media, but even just using Kickstarter and fanfic sites (why is money needed at all, then?) means real money is involved. See, as far as I know Lucasfilm is well within its rights to stomp out any fanfic, they have just traditionally chosen not to because GL likes it. Involve cash or profit in any way, though, and you give them reason to make an exception.


Which reminds me, we don't know how Disney will look upon fanworks from now on. I don't foresee any attempt at holding back the flood being successful in the long run, but they might try to stomp out some prominent stuff before giving up.
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 PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:15 pm Reply with quote  
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  YodaBauer2442
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They'd be committing PR suicide if they went after groups like the 501st and Rebel Legion. But I think those groups would be safe anyway because they are non-profit? I really don't know.

I feel like Kathleen Kennedy would be as okay with fan stuff as Lucas was since he hand picked her. But Disney would have the final say on the matter.

But then how many youtubers use Disney stuff regularly with no problems? I think Viacom is the company with the biggest fan film squashing rep online. (But again could be wrong.)
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 PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:38 pm Reply with quote  
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  Timtimtim
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Certainly the involvement of real money changes things. I think the key, though, is that using these channels would prevent the capital from appearing as profit. A kickstarter campaign would be presented as project funding (which would mostly be in the commission of an established writer). Nothing is being sold. This system has worked in quite a few high-profile projects utilizing material from other franchises.

I agree it's pretty uncertain how Disney would respond, but I think this scheme has potential. Petition to reopen the LU canon would be easier, but it looks like it could be a few decades before a petition like that would have a chance of success. History says that while nothing is ever final in Starwars franchise decisions, intended "finalities" do take time to change.
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 PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:55 pm Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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Wait, so the plan is to Kickstart money for a real author who would write a SW story to be released as free fanfic, with a fan council to act as Lucas Licensing?

That...is certainly a novel idea.

Unless they had trouble with the author making money off of their brand, I don't see anything wrong with that. Especially if there is precedent from elsewhere.
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 PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:36 pm Reply with quote  
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  Darth_Henning
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Skywalker2B wrote:

1. I like the covers of the new books..


Really? You and I have very different perspectives then.

TO me they look like painfully "Disney-fied" cartoon of the characters. And I have no interest in that kind of art.

Personal preference I admit, but I honestly think they look terrible.

Skywalker2B wrote:
2. It looks like they'll be using some of the same authors..


That is true. I am curious though whether or not that's the plan going forward or if that's because they were already under contract for other works and were told "Ok, that book is cancelled, write this instead". I suspect Option 2 is more likely because:

1) We know that Kemp had a duology that was cancelled so this could be the replacement for that.

3) Heir to the Jedi by Kevin Hern presumably replaces his other Luke Skywalker novel that was supposed to be part of Empire and Rebellion, which is now cancelled, and the other two are presumably Legends.

3) There were hints that JJM had a new book upcoming pre-sale and now he's one of the authors.

Luceno is the only surprise of the four.

So two for sure had cancelled projects, one likely did. Suggests to me that these are replacement books for existing contracts rather than entirely new ones. How long they'll keep these guys around is an interesting question that we've yet to answer.

Skywalker2B wrote:
3. In the announcement(s) they stated that they will be using some things from the original EU (ISB, Siennar Fleet Systems, etc.). And considering how much EU was in TCW, the PT, and even the Special Editions (i.e. the Outrider), I'm sure that we'll see more EU stuff brought into the "NewU" than we expect. I even expect to see some EU elements in the ST..


We MIGHT see something like companies and ships continue into the "nEwU", but I doubt it. Production design has free reign now and will likely do something all new.

I doubt we'll see anyone like Karrde, Horn, Katarn, or even Thrawn or Mara make the jump into "canon".


Skywalker2B wrote:
4. Answering the following question is now MUCH easier...for a while anyway: Q: "I'm new to the EU, where do I start reading?" A: "A New Dawn"
.


Fair point.

Until they decide to reboot the EU again in a few years because they want "to give maximum creative freedom to the filmmakers and also preserve an element of surprise and discovery for the audience" When they make the "Young Han Solo" trilogy.




EDIT: Also going to be interesting to see what they do with the timelines in the novels going forward. Will Legends be mentioned in the "nEwU" books and vice versa?

Will they even have timelines anymore? Or will it just be "grab whatever since it doesn't matter anyway"?
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