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 PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:17 am Reply with quote  
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  Life Is The Path
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Oh well. Thanks for clearing it up, though!
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 PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:27 am Reply with quote  
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  Lord Ree'dius
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Dunc wrote:
Lord Ree'dius wrote:
There's no lack of respect in disagreeing with someones decisions.


This. A thousand times this. Respect isn't about what you say, it's how you say it. Tone, not content.

"I disagree with George/Lucasfilm because of X, Y, and Z. I think they should do C and D" is one thing. "George/Lucasfilm is a poopyhead because of X, Y, and Z. The only way to save X is to do D or they might as well flush the whole franchise down the drain." is another. One is respectful, the other isn't.


I agree with you on that totally and feel that I'm (at least trying) to do the same.
But however you look at is George Lucas/continuity is a touchy subject for a lot of people. And I'll admit freely it is for me too.

Life is the Path wrote:
I believe the main reason (not saying the only reason, just the main one) is that he made TCW because he wanted to do his own stories. That he would be getting money would be a minor one - and that he'd only care because it would mean he could carry on making stories.

I also didn't mean to say it was his only reason but I think it was a very big one. I would think that if it actually was about telling the stories he would actually write more of them himself.
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 PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:46 am Reply with quote  
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  Life Is The Path
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Oh, okay.

If I'm recalling my facts correctly, Lucas thinks up an idea, then has someone write it, and he then tweaks it to his satisfaction. Lucas, if I am right, is present all the way through the story making process. It's merely that he gets others to write it.
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 PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:37 am Reply with quote  
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  Lord Ree'dius
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That would be the job of an executive producer, yes.
But I don't know how big of an outline he gives the writers each episode though. I don't think he tells them exactly what to write every episode. That he tweaks every episode is beyond a doubt.
But that wasn't really the point I wanted to make. Smile
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 PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:31 pm Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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Lord Ree'dius wrote:
That would be the job of an executive producer, yes.
But I don't know how big of an outline he gives the writers each episode though. I don't think he tells them exactly what to write every episode. That he tweaks every episode is beyond a doubt.
But that wasn't really the point I wanted to make. Smile

Is the point that "his vision" isn't his alone...? Cause that's what I'm seeing here. Laughing
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 PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:30 am Reply with quote  
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  Life Is The Path
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Lord Ree'dius wrote:
That would be the job of an executive producer, yes.
But I don't know how big of an outline he gives the writers each episode though. I don't think he tells them exactly what to write every episode. That he tweaks every episode is beyond a doubt.

I don't think he tells them exactly what to write. What would be the point in hiring writers, if you all but did it yourself?

Quote:
But that wasn't really the point I wanted to make. Smile


I know. But as I can't read minds (at least not yet) I can't really answer your point Wink
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 PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:06 am Reply with quote  
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  Lord Ree'dius
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illogicalRogue2 wrote:
Lord Ree'dius wrote:
That would be the job of an executive producer, yes.
But I don't know how big of an outline he gives the writers each episode though. I don't think he tells them exactly what to write every episode. That he tweaks every episode is beyond a doubt.
But that wasn't really the point I wanted to make. Smile

Is the point that "his vision" isn't his alone...? Cause that's what I'm seeing here. Laughing


The point was that "his" vision isn't as much his as some folks think. A lot of the times Georges' role in "his" vision is just as the credits of the show state. An executive producer and not a writer.
So a lot of the times the stories of the show are not so much his as is the way the stories are portrait.
That's also the reason I don't think GL's main reason for The Clone Wars is that he want's to tell his stories.
I believe one of the main reasons (and some people may find this direspectfull, but it's not intended that way) is to keep the franchise alive for the bigger audience so that the franchise will stay (or even become more) profitable for times to come.

And please dont get me wrong, I find this a very logical and even healthy reason for starting a project like this. It's only that I get the feeling that sometimes the long-time fans are sold short in favor of the people that might become the SW-fans of the future.

Life is the Path wrote:
But as I can't read minds (at least not yet)

Why Life, you cant? You disappoint me so much right now! Razz
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 PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:10 am Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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Lord Ree'dius wrote:
illogicalRogue2 wrote:
Lord Ree'dius wrote:
That would be the job of an executive producer, yes.
But I don't know how big of an outline he gives the writers each episode though. I don't think he tells them exactly what to write every episode. That he tweaks every episode is beyond a doubt.
But that wasn't really the point I wanted to make. Smile

Is the point that "his vision" isn't his alone...? Cause that's what I'm seeing here. Laughing


The point was that "his" vision isn't as much his as some folks think. A lot of the times Georges' role in "his" vision is just as the credits of the show state. An executive producer and not a writer.
So a lot of the times the stories of the show are not so much his as is the way the stories are portrait.
That's also the reason I don't think GL's main reason for The Clone Wars is that he want's to tell his stories.
I believe one of the main reasons (and some people may find this disrespectfull, but it's not intended that way) is to keep the franchise alive for the bigger audience so that the franchise will stay (or even become more) profitable for times to come.

And please don't get me wrong, I find this a very logical and even healthy reason for starting a project like this. It's only that I get the feeling that sometimes the long-time fans are sold short in favor of the people that might become the SW-fans of the future.


Oh I agree with you on this one for sure! That's one of my issues with the "it's his vision" folks. They forget / don't know where "his vision" ends and say Katie Lucas or some other writer's vision begins. (not that what they create isn't cool too, but again it gets back to that GL works with whom he wants when he wants as he wants and that too can change tomorrow on a WHIM) Yet those writers get G-level canon status and the author writers get to watch their stories unravel a thread at a time.
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 PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:29 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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I've read quite a bit of behind the scenes stuff and listened to Filoni talk about the show on the ForceCast and featurettes and so forth, and the impression I was given is that Lucas pretty much pitches the idea to every episode.

The way production is described sounds a lot like The Empire Strikes Back to me. Lucas talks to the writers about his ideas for episodes, and explains in detail certain concepts like the "Overlords" from the Mortis trilogy, and they write the episodes based upon this. Lucas doesn't like writing scripts. He also seems to be involved in every stage of production, whether it be pitching the ideas to the writers, or tweaking the final animation, like the elimination of the vibrosword and creation of the darksaber to replace it.

Listening to Filoni talk about the EU, I think TCW would also be a lot more... observant of it if Lucas wasn't as involved as he is. He's said that when Lucas first pitches the episode ideas, that he and some of the other writers will bring EU stuff up then, and that's really their only opportunity to bring EU into the show (apart from easter eggs), and it's contingent upon whether Lucas likes what's already been created or not.

Everything I've read and heard has given me the impression that TCW is about the same as TESB and ROTJ in terms of George Lucas' involvement, so I tend to consider it about the same as the films in terms of being "his." He wasn't screenwriter or director for those films, and they're considered the same as the other four films that he was screenwriter and director for, so I don't see the distinction between those and the TV show apart from the medium.


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 PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 1:43 am Reply with quote  
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  BobaFett97
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We will just have to do another Kamino all over again. Pandora's Box has already been opened and even the power of George Lucas will not be able to keep the expanded universe from well; continuing to expand plain, and simple. We the fans hold the true power.
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 PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 2:09 am Reply with quote  
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  VileZero
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LivingJediDream wrote:
I've read quite a bit of behind the scenes stuff and listened to Filoni talk about the show on the ForceCast and featurettes and so forth, and the impression I was given is that Lucas pretty much pitches the idea to every episode.

The way production is described sounds a lot like The Empire Strikes Back to me. Lucas talks to the writers about his ideas for episodes, and explains in detail certain concepts like the "Overlords" from the Mortis trilogy, and they write the episodes based upon this. Lucas doesn't like writing scripts. He also seems to be involved in every stage of production, whether it be pitching the ideas to the writers, or tweaking the final animation, like the elimination of the vibrosword and creation of the darksaber to replace it.

Listening to Filoni talk about the EU, I think TCW would also be a lot more... observant of it if Lucas wasn't as involved as he is. He's said that when Lucas first pitches the episode ideas, that he and some of the other writers will bring EU stuff up then, and that's really their only opportunity to bring EU into the show (apart from easter eggs), and it's contingent upon whether Lucas likes what's already been created or not.

Everything I've read and heard has given me the impression that TCW is about the same as TESB and ROTJ in terms of George Lucas' involvement, so I tend to consider it about the same as the films in terms of being "his." He wasn't screenwriter or director for those films, and they're considered the same as the other four films that he was screenwriter and director for, so I don't see the distinction between those and the TV show apart from the medium.


You know, I was actually shocked when I watched the short little "behind-the-scenes" clips that were on each DVD of TCW Season 2. Because I don't know if Filoni is just telling the truth bluntly or what, but he makes each story about Lucas's involvement sound like Lucas is just bumbling about without a care of the actual story and... that just can't be right. I'm serious. If you've got the DVD, pop in the last disk and watch the featurette on the Zillo Beast episodes. You'll cringe at how Filoni describes Lucas's interactions with the writers.


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 PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 6:07 am Reply with quote  
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  Lord Ree'dius
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illogicalRogue2 wrote:
Oh I agree with you on this one for sure! That's one of my issues with the "it's his vision" folks. They forget / don't know where "his vision" ends and say Katie Lucas or some other writer's vision begins. (not that what they create isn't cool too, but again it gets back to that GL works with whom he wants when he wants as he wants and that too can change tomorrow on a WHIM) Yet those writers get G-level canon status and the author writers get to watch their stories unravel a thread at a time.


Exactly! That's precisely how I think about it.

LiviningJediDream wrote:
I've read quite a bit of behind the scenes stuff and listened to Filoni talk about the show on the ForceCast and featurettes and so forth, and the impression I was given is that Lucas pretty much pitches the idea to every episode.

The way production is described sounds a lot like The Empire Strikes Back to me. Lucas talks to the writers about his ideas for episodes, and explains in detail certain concepts like the "Overlords" from the Mortis trilogy, and they write the episodes based upon this.

I've seen (probably the same) quite a bit of those too and the impression I got is that what you describe above does happen, but only every once in a while. And that a lot of the times it isn't all that idealistic either.

Quote:
You know, I was actually shocked when I watched the short little "behind-the-scenes" clips that were on each DVD of TCW Season 2. Because I don't know if Filoni is just telling the truth bluntly or what, but he makes each story about Lucas's involvement sound like Lucas is just bumbling about without a care of the actual story and... that just can't be right. I'm serious. If you've got the DVD, pop in the last disk and watch the featurette on the Zillo Beast episodes. You'll cringe at how Filoni describes Lucas's interactions with the writers.
I got the same impression there and also during a lot of other Filoni interviews on SW.com.
Episodes that come together as smoothly and co-operative as the above mentioned Mortis Trilogy (which isn't one of my favorites) seem to be more of an exception than a rule. Thanks for handing an example of this VZ.
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 PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 5:50 pm Reply with quote  
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VileZero wrote:
You know, I was actually shocked when I watched the short little "behind-the-scenes" clips that were on each DVD of TCW Season 2. Because I don't know if Filoni is just telling the truth bluntly or what, but he makes each story about Lucas's involvement sound like Lucas is just bumbling about without a care of the actual story and... that just can't be right. I'm serious. If you've got the DVD, pop in the last disk and watch the featurette on the Zillo Beast episodes. You'll cringe at how Filoni describes Lucas's interactions with the writers.


Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Lucas doesn't care about the story. I think the huge problem here is that what Lucas sees Star Wars as is quite a bit different from what the fans see it as. His original plan for the movies, and I don't remember what this is from, either Making of Star Wars or Making of TESB or Secrets of Star Wars or something, was to write and direct the first one, step away and let other writers and directors do the series, and then do the last one. He was also considering having no inherent chronology to the episodes, i.e. the original Star Wars was Star Wars Episode I, and if someone decided to go back and do Obi-Wan and Vader's backstory with the next film, that would still be Episode II.

I think that Lucas is basically doing this original plan with the TV show, right down to the chronology being all mixed up. I wonder if the writers finally said enough of the mixed up chronology and basically forced the issue which is why the latter half of season 3 and season 4 are going in chronological order now.

Lucas only did Star Wars because the asking price for the rights to Flash Gordon were exorbitant and the holder wouldn't give Lucas full creative control, so Star Wars is basically Lucas' serial. He just doesn't seem to take story or continuity that seriously. I actually found it amusing on the commentary on the SW TOS for "Cat and Mouse," where George pitches the idea to Filoni about the ship with the cloaking device, and Filoni says "But George, no ship that small has a cloaking device," and George's response is "Well, this one does."

He just doesn't take it that seriously. This isn't Middle-Earth to him, he's not doing the Silmarillion. I mean, it sucks that the Expanded Universe was built up in that sort of way, and we became accustomed to it, but so long as Lucas is doing stuff, I don't think he's going to show that sort of attention to detail.

However, I still think all the continuity issues are overblown. I loved Jedi Twilight, but it's not a super big deal that when I read it and it has Even Piell in it even though he died during the Clone Wars in the TV show, it's not like the novel is ruined or anything. The Thrawn trilogy basically has the same sort of issues with its implications about the timeline of the Clone Wars and the Republic fighting clones, stuff that you just have to overlook. They don't ruin the story.

I would be more concerned if Lucas decided to start eliminating stories from continuity, or took a personal interest in the EU and started "pruning" it. As it is, whatever he does, Leland Chee is going to come up with a fix eventually.


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 PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 2:54 am Reply with quote  
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  Life Is The Path
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VileZero wrote:
LivingJediDream wrote:
I've read quite a bit of behind the scenes stuff and listened to Filoni talk about the show on the ForceCast and featurettes and so forth, and the impression I was given is that Lucas pretty much pitches the idea to every episode.

The way production is described sounds a lot like The Empire Strikes Back to me. Lucas talks to the writers about his ideas for episodes, and explains in detail certain concepts like the "Overlords" from the Mortis trilogy, and they write the episodes based upon this. Lucas doesn't like writing scripts. He also seems to be involved in every stage of production, whether it be pitching the ideas to the writers, or tweaking the final animation, like the elimination of the vibrosword and creation of the darksaber to replace it.

Listening to Filoni talk about the EU, I think TCW would also be a lot more... observant of it if Lucas wasn't as involved as he is. He's said that when Lucas first pitches the episode ideas, that he and some of the other writers will bring EU stuff up then, and that's really their only opportunity to bring EU into the show (apart from easter eggs), and it's contingent upon whether Lucas likes what's already been created or not.

Everything I've read and heard has given me the impression that TCW is about the same as TESB and ROTJ in terms of George Lucas' involvement, so I tend to consider it about the same as the films in terms of being "his." He wasn't screenwriter or director for those films, and they're considered the same as the other four films that he was screenwriter and director for, so I don't see the distinction between those and the TV show apart from the medium.


You know, I was actually shocked when I watched the short little "behind-the-scenes" clips that were on each DVD of TCW Season 2. Because I don't know if Filoni is just telling the truth bluntly or what, but he makes each story about Lucas's involvement sound like Lucas is just bumbling about without a care of the actual story and... that just can't be right. I'm serious. If you've got the DVD, pop in the last disk and watch the featurette on the Zillo Beast episodes. You'll cringe at how Filoni describes Lucas's interactions with the writers.


I've not got the DVD. I don't suppose I could lean on you, and ask you to go in to more detail, could I?
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 PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:50 am Reply with quote  
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  Life Is The Path
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How would you all react/feel if Del-Ray and all Lucas brands did away with Star Wars EU continuity?
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I am a Star Wars fan. That doesn't mean that I hate or love Jar Jar. That doesn't mean I hate or love Lucas, or agree or disagree 100% with him. That doesn't mean I prefer the PT over the OT, or vice versa. That doesn't mean I hate the EU, or even love all of it (or even read all of it). These are not prerequisites. Being a man is not a prerequisite. Being a geek is not a prerequisite. The only prerequisite is that I love something about Star Wars. I am a Star Wars fan.


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