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 PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:19 pm Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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Kathy, I mean KK, is the Disney representative. Who will run the whole thing on their behalf. And since the need for a leader at all, as opposed to a list of directives from Lucas that can be followed for all eternity, implies decision-making, I find it hard to think business decisions will not be made at all ever. Even if not right away. Any decision made by a leader entails change. Lots to hope for that everything will just stay status quo. Especially if it turns out that status quo is less than cost-effective.

All I ever hear about the EU outside dedicated forums is how damn convoluted it is. And christ, as a Holocron nut, I know the truth of that intimately. It is a messy patchwork. Definitely not newcomer-friendly, which is an argument I hear about DC and Marvel often enough: How the movies prove the audience is receptive to these stories, but that the messy continuity and endless self-reference is a strong alienating force against actually reading the comics. Besides, as you say, the audence won't notice EU continuity, so why spend anything on it?

I never meant to imply Marvel's canon troubles had anything to do with Disney. But it was an example of how the ST rebooting the EU would merely reduce SW to every other point of comparison continuity-wise. Disney wouldn't be a bad mouse for eradicating Holocron continuity. It would be just like all the other mouses in the room.

I was talking about EU continuity here. If you spoke only of continuity with the Lucasverse, then we have talked past each other. Naturally we should expect the ST to continue on from the OT and PT.
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 PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:44 pm Reply with quote  
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  Arawn_Fenn
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DarthMRN wrote:
Agreed. In a galaxy where every sentient creature can affect the Force in some small way simply by being sad or angry, possibly animals too, this way of affecting the Force is trivial.


No, the way that Palpatine's Sith order unbalances the Force is not trivial and is in no way comparable to the way "every sentient creature" affects the Force. As the problem which must be resolved it is the basis for the entire balance of the Force plotline. We see in Darth Plagueis that it is something unusually significant.

DarthMRN wrote:
Not providing examples does not constitute answering something else.


You might call that a question of semantics. I'm asking you to imagine the question that Leland's non-answer could hypothetically serve as an answer to. Whatever. But not providing examples is what it is: not providing examples. Which makes it hard for the quote to "show" what it is alleged to show.

DarthMRN wrote:
A relevant source would pretty much be Leland, for certain issues Rostoni


For certain issues... convenient. Why do I have a feeling this isn't going to be considered one of those issues?

DarthMRN wrote:
If you are sure enough of its content to bring it up, you could at the very least paraphrase it for me.


Funny. Don't you think that's what preceded the most recent request for quotes? The idea of the canon hierarchy is well-known and long-established. It's no mystery.

DarthMRN wrote:
Having Force powers that wax and wane on an individual scale in response to the total energy field in the real galaxy, and seemingly exclusively from that source, is new and different.


"I think it is time we inform the Senate that our ability to use the Force has diminished".

Nothing is different; nothing has changed. ( It is also not an especially notable revelation that the source of Force powers is the Force. )

DarthMRN wrote:
That is brand new, and really special.


Not to anyone who saw the fifth Star Trek movie.

DarthMRN wrote:
About on par with the Chosen One coming across three people for whom even his coveted, destiny-foretold powers are as nothing.


So much for Overlords. Then why are they so interested in him?

DarthMRN wrote:
The implication that we are dealing with divinities here is an obvious one.


Obvious? Hardly. Tempting, perhaps, but only as a rhetorical ploy.

Divinities that can be killed? Divinities that arrived at Mortis in the distant past as apparent ( powerful ) mortals? Divinities that were established as former Celestials in Apocalypse? And how exactly is a mortal like Anakin supposed to take the place of a "divinity"?

To quote a certain James T. Kirk, what does God need with a starship?
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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:34 am Reply with quote  
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  DarthMRN
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Too much of your post has been devoted to evasion or arguing over things either already answered, or which you have proven to know the answer to in the past. Too much to deserve a reply. I am not going to enable you. Here is what is left:

Arawn_Fenn wrote:
For certain issues... convenient. Why do I have a feeling this isn't going to be considered one of those issues?

Probably because you know that when it comes to canon levels and what they entail, which Leland invented, he is the authoritative source. Were I less informed, I might have included Rostoni in that equation since she worked as an editor alongside him in the same company, under benefit of the doubt. But I frequented her thread on the SW.com boards for a long time. Enough to discover that not only were her area of expertise different, related to covers, text editing, schedules, contracts and the like, she also betrayed ignorance of bits and pieces of Holocron continuity Leland had revealed in the past.

Quote:
DarthMRN wrote:
Having Force powers that wax and wane on an individual scale in response to the total energy field in the real galaxy, and seemingly exclusively from that source, is new and different.


"I think it is time we inform the Senate that our ability to use the Force has diminished".

Nothing is different; nothing has changed. ( It is also not an especially notable revelation that the source of Force powers is the Force. )

I'm surprised to hear you make this claim, given how well you know the RotS novelization, and given how you think it is canon. For no source I know is more clear that the shroud of the dark side was a specific Sith invention, a Force technique as opposed to the natural effects of the Force. Plaugeis is even more clear on the subject, am I right?

Overlords are new and different...within SW, as if you didn't know that.
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 PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:43 am Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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Arawn_Fenn wrote:

And how exactly is a mortal like Anakin supposed to take the place of a "divinity"?


To stick with Trek; I give you Ben Sisko. Problem solved.
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 PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:44 am Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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Continuing the continuity discussion, if the books and comics try to adapt to the new Star Wars movies, what will happen if Star Wars Episode VII makes a small but significant change?

Let's say they actually adapt quite a bit of the EU. They decide to keep the Thrawn Trilogy, have Luke marry Mara, Han and Leia have kids...but they make a change somewhere. Maybe Han and Leia only have two kids instead of three (no Anakin). Maybe Luke and Mara have a kid, but it's a girl instead of a boy. How could the books and comics adapt to embrace a change in continuity like that? Can they do it?
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 PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:31 am Reply with quote  
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  1337Jedi
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^ The exact question I have asked my wife on multiple occasions, in multiple different ways. She does not read SW and doesn't listen/care and says it will be ok lol! I get it though and don't think there is any chance of adapting to say a change of how many kids they have or Luke and Mara being together. That's going to bring on split universe, ya ya people say that's fine but I think it's rather lame. Why continue to write books for a discontinued line of stories when the "chance for money" will come with marketing all products towards the new movies? It's weak but all we can do is sit and wait..... And hope the first screen shots have Luke standing next to a red haired actress then take a big sigh of relief
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 PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:28 pm Reply with quote  
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  Darth_Henning
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Darth Skuldren wrote:
....small but significant change?....


You do realize that those two S-words are mutually exclusive right?


But to address the question, that's still invalidating the majority of post-ROTJ EU. Most of the characters as presented are pretty essential to the writing of the stories. If they change Kyle Katarn to a woman, then perhaps less so (though still problematic), but cut out a Solo kid, or change Ben's gender, and it creates a mess that's arguably worse than just overwriting the EU.


Option 1: Overwrite the EU entirely - two separate universes emerge (poor choice, but at least not complicated)

Option 2: Try to work around the EU - a single universe is developed (some continuity muffs are inevitable, but would be the best option)*

Option 3: Adapt some EU, change other parts - some complete mess of whether there are two or one universe(s) and where/if the divergence happens (pretty much the worst of both worlds)



*NOTE: there are 6 years between NJO and DN, and 4 more between DN and LOTF where there are no stories written, and are conveniently about 35ish years after ANH ... just as its been 35 years since ANH was released in theaters. I think that's the perfect place to put the new trilogy. Just my 2C


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 PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:35 pm Reply with quote  
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  GrandMaster
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Darth_Henning wrote:
*NOTE: there are 6 years between NJO and DN, and 4 more between DN and LOTF where there are no stories written, and are conveniently about 35ish years after ANH ... just as its been 35 years since ANH was released in theaters. I think that's the perfect place to put the new trilogy. Just my 2C


I totally agree with this. The actors are about the right ages, and it would be good for the EU as well.
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 PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:08 am Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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No matter what happens I think that they will be able to salvage almost all of the post ROTJ EU with retcons.

If Luke has a daughter instead of a son in the movies, retcon that she was off on some other planet for all the novels, and do the same thing with Ben for the movie events. It's a bit much, but it's workable.

At worst we would have the whole post ROTJ EU bumped down to D canon, but it shouldn't effect all of the rest of the EU and the further back you get the harder it will be to overwrite anything with the movies more than they already have with the prequels and TCW.
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 PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:57 am Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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Retcon #1: Luke steps out of Waru and tells Han "I had this terrible dream about these aliens called Yuuzhan Vong, a Killik Dark Nest, and something called Abeloth."

Retcon #2: Adapt Stover's "it's all a holovid" approach. We've been reading the book equivalent of Star Wars holovids all these years. Heck, they could make the books in-universe holovid canon. "Hey Han, have you checked out this holovid 'Star By Star'?" Han: "I HATE THAT MOVIE! If I ever find the guy who wrote that script..."

And I stand by my small but significant statement. A big significant change would be something like turning Tarfang into a Wookiee Laughing
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 PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:56 pm Reply with quote  
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  Darth_Henning
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Darth Skuldren wrote:
Retcon #1: Luke steps out of Waru and tells Han "I had this terrible dream about these aliens called Yuuzhan Vong, a Killik Dark Nest, and something called Abeloth."



Please don't give Abrams Ideas. This is far too close to what he did to Star Trek for my comfort. THough sadly I expect this is exactly the sort of thing he plans to do to create a new universe.

Darth Skuldren wrote:
Retcon #2: Adapt Stover's "it's all a holovid" approach. We've been reading the book equivalent of Star Wars holovids all these years. Heck, they could make the books in-universe holovid canon. "Hey Han, have you checked out this holovid 'Star By Star'?" Han: "I HATE THAT MOVIE! If I ever find the guy who wrote that script..."

And I stand by my small but significant statement. A big significant change would be something like turning Tarfang into a Wookiee Laughing


That is at least funny.


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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:54 am Reply with quote  
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  Reepicheep
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I wonder if we'll ever get retcon updated novels as re-releases.
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 PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:57 am Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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Here's one for continuity: Max Reebo only had two limbs

http://starwarsblog.starwars.com/index.php/2013/02/20/star-wars-mysteries-getting-to-the-bottom-of-max-rebo/

So should the Ortolan species be retconned to have only two limbs? Or did Max lose a couple appendages in a bar fight?
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 PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:55 pm Reply with quote  
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  Taral-DLOS
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Neither. Initial production design does not equal canon. The source material does not show the presence or absence of legs, and subsequent material shows that Ortolans have legs.

If this was a problem necessitating a retcon, then LFL would have not allowed the production of an inaccurate action figure in 1984.

I believe a retcon will only be required if a future edition of Episode VI includes a new scene where Max Rebo is shown from behind, sitting on a cushion.
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 PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:16 pm Reply with quote  
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  Lord Bane
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Darth_Henning wrote:
Darth Skuldren wrote:
....small but significant change?....


*NOTE: there are 6 years between NJO and DN, and 4 more between DN and LOTF where there are no stories written, and are conveniently about 35ish years after ANH ... just as its been 35 years since ANH was released in theaters. I think that's the perfect place to put the new trilogy. Just my 2C


I agree and wouldn't mind if they started off there. Though they probably won't, one can hope.


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