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The Tenebrous Way by Matthew Stover
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 PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:47 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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Life Is The Path wrote:
Just read it and my mind is abuzz with all the little bits of information that is conveyed, almost in an off-hand manner, in this little story.

One idea I had, and I thought I'd bring it up: I remember reading that the Force is ultimately benevolent, so my theory is that, what if it's the Sith misusing it that provides the taint, and actually creates the dark side of the Force? That the Sith create the other facet of the Force through their own doing, and not that the dark side part of the ultimate Force has always been there, and that the Sith and other dark side users tap into it? Has this been explored before?


Well, that touches on what the New Jedi Order series discussed a bit. Some ideas floated included the idea that the dark side wasn't originally a natural part of the Force, but the light-dark dichotomy exists as a projection of living things onto the Force. That's in fact what Luke concluded at the end of the series. But then in Dark Nest he says there's no dark side, which is disappointing I suppose.

I think it's interesting to think about the Force in the terms that Lucas was originally writing about it in, from the perspective of Campbell and Jung.


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 PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:02 pm Reply with quote  
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  Skymauler
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Loved this story! Now I want a Darth Tenebrous book. I would love to see that charachter explored a bit. Can't wait any more for the plagueis book, want to call off on the 10th


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 PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:35 am Reply with quote  
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  Arawn_Fenn
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Life Is The Path wrote:
I remember reading that the Force is ultimately benevolent


It was supposedly said somewhere that it is not a benevolent or malevolent thing. If so, this may represent the fact that it encompasses both sides. The belief of the Potentium is established as being inaccurate in-universe. The dark side is a fundamental part of the Force. According to Lucas, both sides have to be there. Or to use the words of the Father, too much dark or light would be the undoing of life as we know it.

darthrevan1 wrote:
For me the Force is neither dark or light its how its used.


Force use is not the same thing as the Force itself. The balance of the Force plotline depends on the external duality of the Force. As established in Revan, Cloak of Deception, and Altar of Mortis, the balance is between the light side and the dark side. In the AOTC script and novel, Yoda probes the dark side and can perceive its growth. There are such things as dark side Force powers which require tapping into the dark side to create in the first place, no matter what purpose they are intended to be used for. The dark side and the light side are sides of the Force, not merely synonyms for "good behavior" and "bad behavior" ( much like balance, which is of the Force and not of any other quantity ). In the 1975 script the sides of the Force are referred to as halves. This is not fundamentally different from the scenario underlying the production of the OT: the Annotated Screenplays describe an external dark side and feature Luke using both sides simultaneously.
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 PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:00 am Reply with quote  
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  darthrevan1
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Yoda says that if you go down the dark path forevever will it dominate your destiny but he was wrong. There are a number of examples of Jedi who turned to the darkside or at least dabbled in the darkside but came back. Some examples

Luke Skywalker (Dark Empire)
Jaina Solo (Dark Journey) briefly
Kip Durron. Jedi academy trilogy.
Darth Vader/Anakin ROTJ

and one or two others.

The Force as an entity is an interesting factor and I always saw it as a "character" in the movies and books in its own way.

Its interesting that Darth Malgus in the book Deceived says he serves the force rather then the emperor.

Darth Vader saw it as the most powerful force in the galaxy ahead of the so called "Death Star". And despite its destruction Vader felt a sense of satisfaction. It essentially proved that the force was the only thing important.

Both Jedi and Sith serve The force but its how they serve it and how its used that is the difference. I still see it as a tool that can be used for good and for evil. But if its used for evil over a long time it can harm its user at least physically. (Sidious).
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 PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:33 am Reply with quote  
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  Life Is The Path
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Well, Yoda says that the dark side will 'forever dominate your destiny', that doesn't necessarily mean that they can't be redeemed. It just means that it'll forever be a part of them, part of their life, their outlook. It's like being an addict. You can stop being an alcoholic, but you'll probably always be resisting the temptation to have a drink in times of stress, and be forever going to those AA meetings.
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 PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:18 am Reply with quote  
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  darthrevan1
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Life Is The Path wrote:
Well, Yoda says that the dark side will 'forever dominate your destiny', that doesn't necessarily mean that they can't be redeemed. It just means that it'll forever be a part of them, part of their life, their outlook. It's like being an addict. You can stop being an alcoholic, but you'll probably always be resisting the temptation to have a drink in times of stress, and be forever going to those AA meetings.


Well yes you are always an alcoholic even if you get dry and dont drink again. You can never touch a drink again. I got the impression from Yoda and certainly Obi-Wan that you could not be redeemed. Certainly not Vader who was more machine now then man.
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 PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:48 am Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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At someone who was diagnosed an alcoholic at one point I can say that the entire idea is a lie. AA meetings are actually a religious thing, which means that if you struggle with religion it won't work for you. You know what I do? Have a drink with my friends once a week. And I don't feel like the beast is taking hold again or whatever. Its honestly about self-control and mental discipline. And that metaphor works with the dark side to.
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 PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:52 am Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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darthrevan1 wrote:
Well yes you are always an alcoholic even if you get dry and dont drink again. You can never touch a drink again. I got the impression from Yoda and certainly Obi-Wan that you could not be redeemed. Certainly not Vader who was more machine now then man.


Well, I guess Vader/Anakin proved Yoda and Obi-Wan wrong then. Which is kind of the whole point of the movies -- that redemption is possible.
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 PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:23 pm Reply with quote  
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  Arawn_Fenn
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darthrevan1 wrote:
Its interesting that Darth Malgus in the book Deceived says he serves the force rather then the emperor.


There are a lot of references to characters serving the Force, or the dark side, in the EU. There are many references to the Sith as servants of the dark side in the Bane trilogy, and such a reference also appears in Darth Plagueis.

darthrevan1 wrote:
I still see it as a tool that can be used for good and for evil.


Having this property doesn't distinguish it from any other usable thing, and doesn't somehow prevent it from breaking down into components like all other things. But trying to use the dark side for good would ultimately be like trying to use the One Ring for good.
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 PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:08 am Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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Arawn_Fenn wrote:

darthrevan1 wrote:
I still see it as a tool that can be used for good and for evil.


Having this property doesn't distinguish it from any other usable thing, and doesn't somehow prevent it from breaking down into components like all other things. But trying to use the dark side for good would ultimately be like trying to use the One Ring for good.


IDK tell that to Cade Skywalker, he used the DS to heal, some would call that good.
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 PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:08 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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illogicalRogue2 wrote:
Arawn_Fenn wrote:

darthrevan1 wrote:
I still see it as a tool that can be used for good and for evil.


Having this property doesn't distinguish it from any other usable thing, and doesn't somehow prevent it from breaking down into components like all other things. But trying to use the dark side for good would ultimately be like trying to use the One Ring for good.


IDK tell that to Cade Skywalker, he used the DS to heal, some would call that good.


They copped out though, and made sure that his light-side heal was stronger because it was 'through love' or some nonsense like that.
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 PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:19 pm Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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Caedus_16 wrote:
They copped out though, and made sure that his light-side heal was stronger because it was 'through love' or some nonsense like that.


If you think it was a cop out, you missed the whole point.
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 PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:29 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Cerrinea wrote:
Caedus_16 wrote:
They copped out though, and made sure that his light-side heal was stronger because it was 'through love' or some nonsense like that.


If you think it was a cop out, you missed the whole point.


I got that it was supposed to be the whole "the light side truly is stronger" thing but I honestly just kind of hoped that it would remain one of those dark-side powers. The dark side is no threat if there isn't an equal power to it, at least in my eyes. There's light-side equivalent to Force-Lightning and even essence transfer, even though the power to stay alive well past your lifespan is considered an unnatural dark side power. So I honestly just wish they'd stop evening things out and instead have things wholly unique to each side. There are things like Force Choke and such but I just wish that instead of taking Dark Side powers and making Light Side equivalents but better that something all its own would surface. It just didn't seem original to me.
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 PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:04 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkAVfsw5xSQ


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 PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:05 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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Crash Override wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkAVfsw5xSQ


You just made my day bahaha!

Ok so Plagueis made my day but that was still awesome
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