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Riptide by Paul S. Kemp
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 PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:33 pm Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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"I believe toys resonate with us as humans, we can hold them them, it's tactile, real! They are totems for our extended beliefs and imaginations. A fetish for ideas that hold as much interest and passion as old religious relics for some. We display them in our homes. They show who we are. They are signals for similar thinking people. A way we connect with each other...and I guess thats why I do toys. That connection." -Ashley Wood


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 PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:10 pm Reply with quote  
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  VileZero
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Darth Skuldren wrote:
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 PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:42 am Reply with quote  
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  Life Is The Path
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 PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:57 am Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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Hmm, both good points. I'm leaning towards Vile's theory. Makes more sense.
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"I believe toys resonate with us as humans, we can hold them them, it's tactile, real! They are totems for our extended beliefs and imaginations. A fetish for ideas that hold as much interest and passion as old religious relics for some. We display them in our homes. They show who we are. They are signals for similar thinking people. A way we connect with each other...and I guess thats why I do toys. That connection." -Ashley Wood


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 PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:57 pm Reply with quote  
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  ADG12311990
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I have a bit of a theory regarding 'Mother' (In spoiler text for people who haven't finished Riptide or not played Knights of the Old Republic)

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Sure hope that made sense. I'm a bit tired. Laughing
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 PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:17 am Reply with quote  
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  Life Is The Path
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It makes sense. I'm just working it over in my head. Sounds possible.
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 PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:44 am Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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Alright, I read this in one sitting and just finished it. The prose was good. This is the style of Expanded Universe novel that I would have appreciated ten years ago, but which I'm indifferent to now. It's loaded with references to other Expanded Universe stories. Ten years ago, I thought there was too much disconnect between the prequels and the post-film literature. I also wanted interconnectedness between the EU stories. Story details:

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As for my personal opinion, I enjoyed the novel, but like I said it was something I would have appreciated moreso ten years ago than I do now. Now I think Star Wars should be so massive that references should be few and far between. A for instance would be that if you go back to the Bantam novels, when random species are named you get species like Caamasi, Kloperians, Glottalphibs, Calibops, Diamalans, Ishori, Defel, etc. Each new author created new alien species for the stories, and some of them like the Noghri, Chiss, Verpine, and Barabel are now used as frequently as movie aliens as a result. But with more recent stories like Riptide, a "prequelization" of the EU, as it's been termed elsewhere, has occurred, and instead you just get a bunch of movie species like Umbarans, Kaleesh, and Cereans.

Also

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 PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:52 pm Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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On the Umbarans...
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"I believe toys resonate with us as humans, we can hold them them, it's tactile, real! They are totems for our extended beliefs and imaginations. A fetish for ideas that hold as much interest and passion as old religious relics for some. We display them in our homes. They show who we are. They are signals for similar thinking people. A way we connect with each other...and I guess thats why I do toys. That connection." -Ashley Wood


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 PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:25 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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Edit: Also, I forgot:

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 PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:15 pm Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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Also:

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 PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:25 pm Reply with quote  
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Edit: I just read the discussion thread for this at TFN, and someone there said something I agree with completely, and not just with this novel but a lot of continuity in the EU in general:

"Kemp recently said something along the lines of valuing a good storyteller over a good writer, and I guess this shows in Crosscurrent and Riptide. The action and in-the-moment narrative is engaging enough, but we never get enough answers, and what little background we do get seems kind of arbitrary. The ancient space station and the cloning facility are good examples of this. The station is Rakatan, even though it doesn't seem to follow what we know about Rakatan tech, and the cloning project is Thrawn's, even though it doesn't particularly seem like something Thrawn would do. If you're going to be vague about the details, why not make the origins of both a complete mystery and let us wonder?"

A lot of the time it feels like "continuity" when it comes to the EU is:

Write the story (or outline).
Leland Chee reads the story (or outline), notices X, Y, and Z are sort of like these pre-existing SW things, recommends to the writer incorporate them into it.
Writer does so sans research.

Viola! Decorative crystals on Anakin's lightsaber hilt are now focusing crystals integral to the lightsaber's function and dependent upon their connection to the Force! The formerly unique artifact known as the Jedi Holocron that Palpatine couldn't for the life of him figure out how to recreate are now a dime-a-dozen, and Palpatine created his own! Getting back on the subject of this book, the Rakata are pretty firmly established as a technological species that use the dark side to power their machines, not the users of organic technology.

The paragraph so perfectly encapsulates what I didn't think worked in the book. The Star Wars galaxy is a vast place where you could write thousands of stories that all have absolutely nothing in common with each other. If you're going to have continuity between stories in terms of Thrawn's cloning facility or Rakatan tech or cortosis weapons or whatever else the EU has screwed up royally in the past, have it be true to its original use and not something you name drop to give the false impression that there's "continuity." It annoys me when a writer is like "well, I've got this material that's lightsaber resistant, and I see that Zahn and Stackpole invented this material called cortosis, so I'll just call it that even though it's nothing like that."

/end rant


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 PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:34 pm Reply with quote  
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  Cerrinea
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Quote:
Viola! Decorative crystals on Anakin's lightsaber hilt are now focusing crystals integral to the lightsaber's function and dependent upon their connection to the Force!


Is this Anakin Skywalker referred to here (sorry, I've got the flu and can't remember anyone's lightsaber being decorated with crystals). Anyway, if it's Skywalker's, he got his crystals from Ilum and those crystals are imbued with the Force naturally. So that makes sense.

Also I believe it says in the Essential Guide to the Force, that part of the construction of a lightsaber is to imbue the crystal with the Force. I can't check because my books are packed away. I'll check on Wookie tomorrow and get back to you on that. Smile
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 PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:33 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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Cerrinea wrote:
Quote:
Viola! Decorative crystals on Anakin's lightsaber hilt are now focusing crystals integral to the lightsaber's function and dependent upon their connection to the Force!


Is this Anakin Skywalker referred to here (sorry, I've got the flu and can't remember anyone's lightsaber being decorated with crystals). Anyway, if it's Skywalker's, he got his crystals from Ilum and those crystals are imbued with the Force naturally. So that makes sense.

Also I believe it says in the Essential Guide to the Force, that part of the construction of a lightsaber is to imbue the crystal with the Force. I can't check because my books are packed away. I'll check on Wookie tomorrow and get back to you on that. Smile


What I mean specifically, and I apologize for derailing the thread from Riptide, is that the original connection between lightsabers and crystals was made in the original film novelization by Alan Dean Foster, but in it they are described as a decorative part of the hilt. Over the next thirty-four years of stories, these decorative crystals have evolved through different authors changing it bit by bit until now these crystals are necessary for the lightsaber to connect to the Force in order to work.

Likewise with the Holocron example, in the original Dark Empire the Holocron that Palpatine has is a unique Jedi artifact, one-of-a-kind with no others like it. The Holocron isn't a type of device, it's a unique object. In the audio drama, Luke finds a holo of Palpatine discussing it and saying he can't figure out how it works or how to recreate it. There's a real sense of loss when Exar Kun destroys it. But then there became multiple holocrons, and then Sith holocrons, and then Palpatine created a holocron, and then there's holocrons completely divorced from the Force (Bastila's father's holocron), and the whole thing is completely changed.


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 PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:55 am Reply with quote  
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  Darth Skuldren
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Well I think there's room for the canon to evolve. I'm not saying I want everything all the sudden to be game for being tweaked and rebooted, I'm just saying that when something is done in moderation, it can be a good thing.

I double checked Lomi Plo. Here ability with the lightsabers was that she was able to drain their batteries.

From what Kemp said about needing the Force to make a lightsaber, the idea was to explain why everyone in the galaxy doesn't have one. The reason that's usually given out is that they're too dangerous, which is pretty lame. By saying that in order to get the crystals to work properly you have to tune them with the Force, this explains why they're rare. It might not be the sort of thing some fans are happy with, but it didn't bother me and I thought it was a reasonable idea.

Something else to consider is that as new authors are brought into the EU, we're going to get a new set of eyes examining it and exploring it. This means new inventions, powers, and explanations for things. On one hand, it adds some freshness to the EU, on the other, it can rub people the wrong way when it comes to canon.

Personally, when your dealing with a galaxy, I seem room for there being lots of things, especially redundancy.
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 PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:47 pm Reply with quote  
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  Crash Override
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http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightfoil

The EU already has non-Force users that wield lightsabers, though.

I can totally understand the idea of the continuity evolving, the argument that an earlier story didn't say X did Y, but it didn't say it didn't either, but I find it exasperating that when you read through the Star Wars novels over a short period of time like I have been doing recently you see how frequently this is done and it is obvious that it's done either out of lack of research or lack of caring, and then when TCW does it people act like it's the worst thing ever. Especially when it's obvious that Katie Lucas went to great pains to keep Ventress' backstory intact, for instance. I think she showed more care for continuity than any other EU writer with that trilogy of episodes.

Personally, I came to peace with this sort of continuity a long time ago because I understood that's how the novels operated and when TCW didn't adhere perfectly to it, it was nothing new for me, but people are acting like it's some new thing. It's really not. And it feels like a double standard.


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