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 PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:17 am Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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How long ago was that? It doesn't take near that effort to get them anymore.
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 PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:17 am Reply with quote  
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  Autobon
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Dog-Poop_Walker wrote:
My friend, just like everyone there had wasted their whole day standing in line for nothing. So now you tell me how easy it was for you personally to get free money for nothing just because you are lazy.


Thanks for your example on how utterly inept our government programs are. I could not have said it better myself. To think we trust these people with trillions of our dollars to run these programs... simply astounding.

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 PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:24 am Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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Actually I agree with you on that.

Money spent on benefits given out to people when computer crash renders DES inoperable for a day: 0 Dollars.

Money spent on a government office that is rendered inoperable for a day because of a computer crash: Shocked

Look, I get it. I don't want to throw away money either, but the rhetoric of the lazy welfare mooch isn't really a constructive way to address the issue of "balancing the budget".
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 PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:54 pm Reply with quote  
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  Salaris Vorn
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I just found this interesting bit of information regarding the states which states had the most people not paying Federal income tax and which way the state voted in 2008: http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-and-economy/2012/09/geography-47/3323/

Interpret the information as you will, I just thought I'd share as I found it interesting.
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 PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:23 pm Reply with quote  
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  Autobon
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Salaris Vorn wrote:
I just found this interesting bit of information regarding the states which states had the most people not paying Federal income tax


What is interesting is that, while the colored map looks bad for Republicans, its actually dead even. The Democrat states in blue (high percentage of non-payers) make up 130 electoral votes and the Republican ones make up 132. And that is assuming every single person votes according to their state's final election result, which obviously is not the case.

Unfortunately the article provides little to no additional information on the subject. We do not get to see percentages of voters by state, county, demographics, occupations, etc. So while it certainly is interesting, I find it frustratingly lacking. The article would potentially make for an interesting "bias in graphs" study.

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 PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:01 am Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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Caedus_16 wrote:
Mara Jade Skywalker wrote:
illogicalRogue2 wrote:
Look back to Gore/ Bush. Gore won THAT Election and yet Bush declared himself winner and America was too afraid to challenge the two party system and do what our country was founded on - a fair election.


What do you mean by this?


There's a ridiculously funny conspiracy theory that says that Gore won, but the evil blood-of-children-drinking-Republicans hid ballots and cheated their way into the election victory. Its ironic that its a theory because if it had gone the other way the Republican party would have claimed the exact same thing. No matter what actually happened it ends up with both parties being unable to admit that one temper tantrum happened and another was barely avoided. I grow tired of hearing about it, it was over a decade ago and needs to be let go.

Conspiracy or not- it happened. Gore had been declared the winner first, then Bush went and called himself the winner. And Gore never challenged it. HAD HE- things would have been different. I'm not at all saying it would have been better, just pointing out all the corrupt bs that goes with it. The point is that our election system is SO CONVOLUTED it's ridiculous- why can't we all just vote for who we think is best? Why then can't the person with the MOST votes win? Why do we have to confuse things with Electoral votes which can allow a person who HAS the most votes to still lose? It's stupid.

Autobon wrote:

Dependency breeds a sense of complacency and entitlement and fosters a government that will further that dependency in order to stay in power.


I would LOVE to apply that to Congress as well- they are so complacent due to their pay and health benefits they don't need to worry about fixing it. Take away THEIR FREE RIDE too and maybe things would get fixed.
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 PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:26 am Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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Jedi Joe wrote:


Personally, I have no respect at all for liars who try to take away free speech. I used to respect Obama as a man (even though I disagreed with his politics) until this last December, when he signed the National Defense Authorization Act (after promising to veto) into law. http://www.aclu.org/national-security/president-obama-signs-indefinite-detention-bill-law The law basically gives the federal government the authority to put American citizens into indefinite detention if they're "terror threats".

How anyone can have respect for that man is a mystery to me. He's an incompetent liar who thinks he has a right to take away our freedom of speech, and personally, I find that offensive. It's like George Bush with the Patriot Act all over again, but even worse.


I was going to say- sounds a lot like the Patriot Act to me- which allowed for the same thing. And took out our Constitutional Right to rise up against a corrupt government. Try it now and you'll be labeled a terrorist and shipped off to their terrorist prison. How is this new act THAT different? (I'm generally curious here. I've no clue.)
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 PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:05 am Reply with quote  
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  Mara Jade Skywalker
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I'm afraid I don't know what you're talking about, that Gore was declared winner. I remember that election, and I recall Bush being declared winner before the vote was challenged. Much deliberating, and finally Bush was still declared the winner. Respectfully, I've never heard, nor do I remember, Gore being proclaimed victor at any point.
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 PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:15 am Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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I've talked about this before. It's NOT your constitutional right to rebel against the government. The part about corrupt government is in the preamble where it is talking about the injustices of the government of England, not in the part that is stating the new laws of the US and the rights of it's citizens.

A little way down the document where it starts to outline the laws of the government, you get to Article Three Section Three: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort..."

In this case "only" refers to the actual commission of harm as opposed to the English law where pissing off the monarch for pretty much any reason counted.
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They have taken the hearts and minds of our leaders. They have recruited the rich and the powerful, and they have blinded us to the truth! Our human spirit is corrupted. Why do we worship greed? Because, outside the limit of our sight, feeding off us, perched on top of us from birth to death are OUR OWNERS. They have us! They control us! They are our masters! Wake up! They’re all about you, all around you!


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 PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:26 am Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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illogicalRogue2 wrote:
Caedus_16 wrote:
Mara Jade Skywalker wrote:
illogicalRogue2 wrote:
Look back to Gore/ Bush. Gore won THAT Election and yet Bush declared himself winner and America was too afraid to challenge the two party system and do what our country was founded on - a fair election.


What do you mean by this?


There's a ridiculously funny conspiracy theory that says that Gore won, but the evil blood-of-children-drinking-Republicans hid ballots and cheated their way into the election victory. Its ironic that its a theory because if it had gone the other way the Republican party would have claimed the exact same thing. No matter what actually happened it ends up with both parties being unable to admit that one temper tantrum happened and another was barely avoided. I grow tired of hearing about it, it was over a decade ago and needs to be let go.

Conspiracy or not- it happened. Gore had been declared the winner first, then Bush went and called himself the winner. And Gore never challenged it. HAD HE- things would have been different. I'm not at all saying it would have been better, just pointing out all the corrupt bs that goes with it. The point is that our election system is SO CONVOLUTED it's ridiculous- why can't we all just vote for who we think is best? Why then can't the person with the MOST votes win? Why do we have to confuse things with Electoral votes which can allow a person who HAS the most votes to still lose? It's stupid.


You know ya except, well ,there were like 3 calls for a recount...then there were like 3 recounds...then there was a lot of anger. Gore was declared winner, so was Dewey, but turns out that once the actual ballots were counted Truman won. Gore DID challenge it, its on record. He may have acted gracious in defeat the evening of the election but there were investigations, recounts, and anger like crazy. All because we decided to split into to sides that squabble like spoiled children instead of finding common ground. We have a broken system and nothing displayed it like that evening. And stating it as fact doesn't work because there was zero evidence. There's a lot of heresay, but no evidence. The polls didn't close till the last vote was in, Gore was parading around and measuring out curtains for the oval office days in advance before a single vote was tallied, but he lost and like I said its been a decade and it needs to be over.
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 PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:29 am Reply with quote  
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  1337Jedi
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Can we just make a motion of no confidence in the Senate and elect Palpatine already?! That man had some good ideas!
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 PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:39 pm Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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Dog-Poop_Walker wrote:
I've talked about this before. It's NOT your constitutional right to rebel against the government. The part about corrupt government is in the preamble where it is talking about the injustices of the government of England, not in the part that is stating the new laws of the US and the rights of it's citizens.



Oops Declaration of Independence. Not constitutional.

--That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.




Re: Gore- I recall it differently, but in the end winners always write the histories. I recall it being the electoral votes that got Bush in. After the recount debacle- the one that ended each time in his brother's state.

But yeah 10 years ago- it's been swept away Wink
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 PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:02 pm Reply with quote  
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  Caedus_16
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illogicalRogue2 wrote:


Re: Gore- I recall it differently, but in the end winners always write the histories. I recall it being the electoral votes that got Bush in. After the recount debacle- the one that ended each time in his brother's state.

But yeah 10 years ago- it's been swept away Wink


Lol you can be mad about it but if Bush had lost the Republicans would still be raging the same thing to this day. His brother is a governor, but there were 49 other states contributing to that election and despite what anyone may think they have a more significant input than his brother in that election. I don't support Bush, but I haven't liked any candidate we've had in years. Bush was a warlord, Obama is a patronizing puppet, and Romney isn't faring any better. It's why I still refuse to vote, I won't start until someone worth casting my lot behind comes along. Bush wasn't someone I got behind, but he won that election whether you like it or not. Like I've said, its a decade over and done with and people are still throwing fits about it and now its down to simply "history is written by the winners so since Bush won we all know the truth but it won't be recorded". I'm afraid at this point I'll have to ask for evidence or merely shake my head derisively and continue to say that its just anti-Republican anger rather than anything useful or realistic.
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 PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:27 am Reply with quote  
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  Dog-Poop_Walker
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Oh No Cadeus, you're THROWING YOUR VOTE AWAY! If you don't vote, you CAN'T COMPLAIN!

I'm just kidding. I agree with you. I believe that a citizen has the right to personal sovereignty which extends to their participation in the electoral process, so they should be able to vote for the candidate of their choosing, to throw their vote away, to abstain from the voting process or to show that they have elected to choose none of the candidates offered.

And no matter what your position on voting is, you have the right to complain. That one is in the Constitution.
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They have taken the hearts and minds of our leaders. They have recruited the rich and the powerful, and they have blinded us to the truth! Our human spirit is corrupted. Why do we worship greed? Because, outside the limit of our sight, feeding off us, perched on top of us from birth to death are OUR OWNERS. They have us! They control us! They are our masters! Wake up! They’re all about you, all around you!


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 PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:35 am Reply with quote  
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  illogicalRogue2
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Caedus_16 wrote:
illogicalRogue2 wrote:


Re: Gore- I recall it differently, but in the end winners always write the histories. I recall it being the electoral votes that got Bush in. After the recount debacle- the one that ended each time in his brother's state.

But yeah 10 years ago- it's been swept away Wink


Lol you can be mad about it but if Bush had lost the Republicans would still be raging the same thing to this day. His brother is a governor, but there were 49 other states contributing to that election and despite what anyone may think they have a more significant input than his brother in that election. I don't support Bush, but I haven't liked any candidate we've had in years. Bush was a warlord, Obama is a patronizing puppet, and Romney isn't faring any better. It's why I still refuse to vote, I won't start until someone worth casting my lot behind comes along. Bush wasn't someone I got behind, but he won that election whether you like it or not. Like I've said, its a decade over and done with and people are still throwing fits about it and now its down to simply "history is written by the winners so since Bush won we all know the truth but it won't be recorded". I'm afraid at this point I'll have to ask for evidence or merely shake my head derisively and continue to say that its just anti-Republican anger rather than anything useful or realistic.


Please don't mistake my ANTI 2 Party System as Anti- Republican. I'm anti both parties. 100%

Both parties think they are the end all be all for our country and that they alone know how to fix it- I got news for you people- they STILL HAVE NOT FIXED ANYTHING. How can they? Each elected government is trying to undo what the last one did- how is that PROGRESS?

As I recall it Gore had said he'd wait for a recount then turned right around and conceded the presidency without the results. He was an idiot- my point being that our election system is bunk- yet that was overlooked I guess. My biggest issue is not that Bush won- but that HOW CONVOLUTED the system is and so much so that that election was a train wreck.

Do away with electoral votes- no state should be worth more in voice- each person should get a vote. Regardless of political ideals. Ditch the labeling. And I mean all labeling. Posters here even are quick to call a comment a liberal idea or a Conservative idea. It's so bunk. No one is 100% Republican or 100% Democrat- and if they are they stopped thinking for themselves a long time ago.

Granted I do tend to bump heads with Republicans more- though I chalk that up to more of them seen to see themselves as right and everyone else wrong. I have a Republican friend who is always trying to say anyone who disagrees with him is "obviously a Democrat"he just doesn't get it- further it's that stanch died in the wool kind of thinking that will keep our country leashed to the 2 party system and to big business and it's influences.

Go and make these lawmakers do drug tests and lie detector tests before and after each vote and maybe things would start to change- but until the big business behind the scenes money exchanges stop we're hostage to a corrupt system.
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-To become a Jedi, it is not the Force one must learn to control but oneself.
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